Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hello, my name is Peter Lewis and welcome to the, give yourself the chat podcast, the show dedicated to a life
Speaker 1 00:00:06 Performance,
Speaker 0 00:00:13 A very warm welcome to give yourself the chat podcast. This is one of the earlier episodes that I'm glad to say. I've got Liz male and white with me, and I'll let you into a, a secret. This is our second take because the first five minutes of our chat, I forgot to hit record here. So Liz is very happily, whatever happily, but she's very kindly indulging me very good morning to you, Liz, how are you again? So, um, let's, I mean, interesting times, w w we're living in a COVID-19 coronavirus, we're now sort of four weeks into, into lockdown. Uh, how how's things with you. Cause you've got so many things going on, you know, um, in your life, in terms of family life and also professional life. How are things?
Speaker 2 00:00:56 Yeah, good. I mean, we're all well, um, which I think, you know, right now is the most important thing who knows. I mean, I think we, you know, there's sort of the younger and the fitter, you are the better, you assume you're going to deal with it. Um, but we don't know, you know, there's very young, very fit people who are, who are managing, um, physically with the, the illness. So as far as we know, we haven't had it, but, um, who knows, who knows what it will look like. So we're all, we're all fine. We're all just about managing to get through.
Speaker 0 00:01:23 Good, good. Glad to hear it. That way you mentioned sort of fit and healthy. I mean, when we met didn't we through our local, uh, triathlon club and our, and our love of triathlon and, uh, we've, I have had the honor of racing with you and we've had the honor of pulling on, um, uh, colors for, for great Britain, um, racing. So for me, that was a huge bucket list thing. I don't know, it was, it was big for you as well, um, racing in, in Ibiza, which wasn't as warm as Pope. And then last year in, uh, in Romania, which was, that was warm, wasn't it? That was a tough old event. Um, but there's also a part of your story. I don't know, which is the, um, uh, the rowing, the Atlantic. Um, so I'd love to explore, uh, some of that. And, and I think for the, for that, give yourself the chat podcast. I think you're, you're a great guest there, cause I'm guessing there's, there's those moments in your life where you've had to give yourself the chat. So we'd love to explore that as well, but, but let's, um, let's just talk about here and now there's lots going on. How have you sort of consciously decided to, to approach this whole isolation COVID-19 situation? We find ourselves in?
Speaker 2 00:02:32 I think, um, I mean, I think like everybody else, we're really just trying to pick our way through, find the way that works best for us. Um, everybody's different everybody's perspective. Everybody's situation is very different and, and I was, will be different to the next people. Um, but we found, you know, routine is extremely important. Um, we've made sure that, uh, as much as we possibly can, we still maintain the routines that we've always had. Um, you know, I still get up five o'clock in the morning and do my training just to, to try and, you know, keep myself sane. I kind of feel like I still need that. Even if the day ahead of me actually doesn't hold anything in particular that I need to be done by seven four. But, um, you know, I think it, it just, it keeps me sane. Um, and just looking at it every day at a time.
Speaker 2 00:03:20 Um, I think, I mean, you mentioned the Atlantic bearing and, um, something like that was, it was enormous when we stood back and looked at it from, from the sort of very starting point, it was a huge challenge and this is a huge challenge and, and, you know, in some ways a huge trauma, um, and just trying to chop it up so that you can, you know, you take every day at a time rather than looking at the whole thing, how am I going to get through this? What's it going to look like? You know, what's it going to like in July, what's it going to look that I can, they also, it, you know, things change and you can't try and anticipate or, or certainly try and control what's what's going to happen in the future. So every day at a time control the controllables. Um, and that's really what we're trying to do. So
Speaker 0 00:04:06 Love that, love that stuff. We'll go press a bit deeper on some of that stuff, particularly the Atlantic bit there. But I want to ask you a question because like, like me, you've probably had some events lined up triathlon wise, this, this year. I know you qualified for great Britain again. I think you were due to do the Europeans in Austria, is that correct? And then the world's as well, congratulations by the way, but that Edmonton Canada, and both of those have been called off. Um, so here's my question to you yet. You're an early wiser, you've got your routine, but when you've got nothing to train for, how do you sustain that motivation?
Speaker 2 00:04:45 Yeah, it's difficult. Um, I mean, I, the very recent needed, I hear that the, um, European championships were canceled, not, not postponed. Um, so until recently I sort of, I knew that that was still a potential. Um, I'm still hopeful, although I'm getting less, like, less hopeful that that Canada will happen. Um, I think, I mean, we do these things because not just for the, the events at the end and not just for, you know, for a metal or a finish line, but because we love them. Um, and because we love the process and I think it's so important. And a lot of people talk about, um, the process that goes behind the competitions and you have to, you have to enjoy the process and you have to, um, you know, enjoy the journey as much as the destination. So that's, that's probably slightly cliched, but, um, you know, you, you have to enjoy it.
Speaker 2 00:05:39 And I, I, don't funny. I think I, um, I'm quite, uh, I don't think, well, the polite way of putting this, but I'm quite, bloody-minded once I decide that I'm going to do something, and I know what my training program looks like three now and the end of August, and I'm going to stick to that, even if there's that actually no race at the, of August that's, that's what I had planned. That's what I had laid out. So that's what I'm doing. Um, so actually, whether the race happens or not is, is now becoming slightly irrelevant to me. Um, and I think as a, as I mentioned before, I've, I've put in place a, sort of a slightly different challenge, which is a virtual thing I found online, um, which means that my, my daily, uh, distances, whether that's a run or a, or a swim or swimming at the moment, um, those add up to, um, to take me slightly further along the Appalachian trail, which is a trail that runs up the East coast of the States. So that's just kind of keeping me ticking along, keeping me motivated. And, and I see my little dog move further up the math every day. Um, so that's now I don't know whether the race is going to happen. That's quite a good way of just keeping myself motivated.
Speaker 0 00:06:48 It's wonderful how technology can enable that as well. So you can visually track via an app or whatever, how far you are along the trail. And I guess one day you might go and recreate that journey by being on the Appalachian trail. Cause I know you love the great outdoors. I know you've, you've, you've got a place over in it, Nova Scotia and it's fantastic. So yeah, I mean, it doesn't surprise me to hear that, but it's interesting. I want to unpack some of that and I know, I mean, you mentioned that, so it can sound quite cliche. It's not the end, it's the, it's the, it's the journey that counts. But I think those, uh, athletes, those high performers, um, deal with disappoint or deal with setbacks by just a reframe and what you've just described there, you've just reframed your experience to make the, the process of training still valid and still fulfilling.
Speaker 0 00:07:33 It's just a different target, but actually the target can change. But like you said, that it is the process because how many, you know, you often hear stories of people once they've achieved a goal or an outcome, there's this vacuum that's left afterwards. It's like, Oh, I've done that now. And it's almost anti-climatic and it's, I think it's those people that suffer the most haven't realized it is the process of getting to that point where the joy and the fulfillment is. Um, and therefore all you gotta do is continue whatever journey it might be. I mean, I suffer from post iron man blues, probably like the rest of us, you know, and it's that sort of slump. And, and that's why I'm, you know, despite saying never again, within that week, you have on the keyboard trying to end to another event, tell me you can relate to that.
Speaker 2 00:08:20 Yeah, yeah. Maybe. Yeah. I really don't want one full line, man. Not like we're doing four 20.
Speaker 0 00:08:26 I'm up to 20 now. Yeah. Yeah, there is. I know, but, but you know, I'm still gonna work on you to sign back up for the long. This is part of my plan
Speaker 2 00:08:37 One day, I'll tell you what I did. I watched something yesterday on the Patagonia down, I think it's called, which is a, yeah. An iron man down in Patagonia that got some juices flowing. So who knows
Speaker 0 00:08:49 During this isolation period and, you know, I've been on the, what bike and the pain cave or whatever. I thought I just miss being around people. I missed a crowd, the energy that bars. And I can't wait to get back to that. And I mean, this will pass won't it. So I think carrying on your training is good investment. Again, another reframe investment for the next season ahead. Think of those miles. You've put in your notes.
Speaker 2 00:09:10 Yeah. A base miles now. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:09:15 So tell me about the Atlantic rowing. That's again, as I said, that's a part of your story. I don't really know. I'd love to know in the, and our listener, cause there's always just that one person. Um, it w how do you even conceive and, and get going with that and kind of give us a bit of the, the, the picture around the decision to do that and some of the highs and lows of that experience.
Speaker 2 00:09:41 So, yeah, I mean, it's the brace that we did was actually in 2005. So it's 15 years ago now. Correct.
Speaker 0 00:09:49 Have you been in a boat since
Speaker 2 00:09:51 A boat? As you know, I have been in boats and rowing boats and I did sweat when we reached shore. The other end I saw her. I never wanted to see it to see again, but yeah, 2005, we actually, I mean, like a lot of big challenges, you can't decide a few months or a few weeks before you're due to do it, but you suddenly want to, wanted to, you know, turn up and do it. So it was actually the, I think I'm right in saying was the end of 2002. And I was a very boring insurance broker working for a broker down in South Hampton. And, uh, one of the prospective clients, I went to go and visit with company called challenge business who used to run the BC global challenge. I think it was, it started as a big global challenge and part of, sort of the smaller profile of events that they did was the Atlantic growing rice.
Speaker 2 00:10:37 And I didn't, I was a sailing instructor or had been Satan instructor before then. Um, so I came from the background of sailing and I didn't want to just sound like a doll insurance class. So, um, so I said, um, the, you know, we'd, we were quite key in my husband, my, my boyfriend then at the time. Um, and I were quite keen to sign up one day for the Atlantic rowing race. And, um, the finance director who I was visiting, um, said, Oh, well, that's just in time because the entries have just opened for 2005 was all crikey. Right. Okay. So I better not need to follow through on this now, 200 pounds to kind of post a, an interesting, and then the, the actual entry fee was about 16,000 pounds, um, to kind of enter a team. So pay that in installments. So we sort of, we just sort of started paying, um, every month it was like 300 pounds, 400 pounds we paid in installments.
Speaker 2 00:11:28 And so we kind of got swept along without really realizing it. And before we knew it we'd paid the whole entry fee. And so then we needed to, to buy a boat, fit the boat house. And so it was a three year process really from the point that we, we sort of first had the idea. Um, so yeah, I think to sort of come back to how do you, you know, how do you face a challenge like that? Very, very, very small trunks. We weren't, you know, didn't have lots of money. Um, we could, or a lot of capacitors nowadays buy the boat fully, fully kitted out, fully equipped. Um, but we wanted to, for two reasons, we couldn't afford to sort of one big lump sum to buy a boat with all the kits, um, in, in one go. Uh, but we also wanted to know that when we're out on the ocean, um, we wanted to know that we could fix whatever was particularly pretended. Um, so we wanted to be able to do that. We'd install the electronics, the water maker, which converts sea water to fresh water. Um, the yours, the, you know, every bit of kit.
Speaker 0 00:12:32 I knew everything about that, that vessel.
Speaker 2 00:12:35 Absolutely. So we'll actually restrict it right back to bare plywood and started again and fitted it out all ourselves for two and a half years. Um, test rowing, you know, that's not gonna work, let's replace that with that and just, you know, build it all up. So lots of lots went into that, that initial process before we got anywhere near the start line. And that
Speaker 0 00:12:56 Had you, have you been a rower up until that point where you are, you know,
Speaker 2 00:13:00 I I'd never wrote, um, Richard wrote at university. I mean, I think it's slightly annoyingly. I think I probably have the physique, you know, to have been quite a good row. Um, but no, I'd, I'd never right away. I mean, I was a sailor. Um, so I'd wrote, you know, dinghies around. Um, and, and actually the most important thing when we were out there, wasn't being a tactical rower, it was a seaman ship. It was, you know, understanding the weather navigation. And so actually both as sailing instructors was far more important than any borrowing ability. So, um, so that was, you know, that without doubt the biggest part, I'm sorry.
Speaker 0 00:13:41 No, I was going to say, and so just a pair of you, uh, in this, uh, so you kind of fitting it all out before you kind of go into the journey itself. Just what, what was the burning ambition here? I mean, you could, there's plenty of mountains to go climb that there's all sorts of challenges. Why this particular one, before we get into the details,
Speaker 2 00:14:03 I think, I mean, we'd done a lot of sailing challenges with, we'd done sailing races, we'd done the three peaks, yacht race, which is sailing between and running up the three highest mountains in England, Scotland, Wales. Um, so we'd done, um, nautical stuff. Um, Richard had done a lot of mountains. I'd done some, but, you know, to be honest, the mountains didn't really draw me. I wasn't bad. It wasn't that fast. Um, and it was, you know, I think it, it just was something that was in the back of our minds and then the opportunity presented itself. And so we grabbed the opportunities. I don't think we really, really go to the things, but we, the opportunity came along. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:14:43 So, uh, that's I mean, so yeah, take, take us through, you know, some of the, the, the, kind of the, the elements of that, the actual journey they're transitioning across the ocean. And, um, and I'll be keen to know, um, those moments where you had to give yourself the chat. Cause I'm guessing there's plenty of opportunity to do that. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:15:02 Yeah. A hundred percent. Um, yeah, I mean, it's, it's jolly holiday thing to do. Um, we always set out, we spoke to a sports psychologist before we went, uh, who was really helpful. And, and I think I imagined it was going to be lots of mumbo jumbo and visioning this and, and, and imagining that, but actually was a lot more about goal setting, um, goal setting as individuals, but also as a team. And, um, the fact that we were a couple, um, we actually got engaged just before we went, um, was really important. It meant that so a lot of people get off the boats at the other end, um, and go in opposite directions and never speak to each other again. Um, but we wanted to, you know, actually maintain a relationship that was going to last a lot longer than just getting across the Atlantic.
Speaker 0 00:15:43 This is a real test of that relationship, isn't it?
Speaker 2 00:15:47 Yeah. And I think, you know, to jump forward a bit, I think we probably were more a team than a couple when we got off the other end and we had to kind of find that side of it again, if that makes any sense. Um, so yeah, we, you know, we, we set off with goals and with aims and we, uh, we had our sort of gold, silver, bronze goals, and we, um, imagined, so the fastest woman had, um, crossed the Atlantic in 50 days. So we're, um, we had 50 days as a sort of a target. Um, but it shortly after we, in fact, even before we left, uh, sorry, just to clarify, we went from the canaries to the caravan, so across the sort of central bit of the Atlantic, um, and it was part of a race. So 26 boats in the race, um, let me get this right.
Speaker 2 00:16:34 20 of them were pairs, um, four, four fours and two, couple of two, two solos. That's right. Um, and, uh, we, what was I going to say? We, um, yeah, we, we had 50 days in mind before we set off. Um, it was 2005 was a very, um, violent hurricane season. Um, that hurricane season is meant to finish end of June. Um, but by, we would do set off at the end of November and we still had a tropical storm that hit us in the Canary. So it was actually the day we would choose to set off the, the stop was postponed by a couple of days. Um, tropical storm came through. Um, and as we went across, we, um, had another hurricane that hit as well as we were out there. Uh, plus one, one more tropical storm just before we got into the Caribbean. So yeah, that, um, slowed us down. We, uh, so when the hurricane hits the, the waves, the wind and the way you just came from the opposite direction. So it came from, um, the West, which basically stopped us in our tracks. So that, that put a stop on things by 10 days. So we actually made it into antiquer in 60 days rather than 50. Um, so that's, uh,
Speaker 0 00:17:52 So that, that, that was the gold goal gone then in terms of the fastest woman. So, so reframing then at that point.
Speaker 2 00:18:01 Exactly. So, so when we were hit by the hurricane and we re we were basically where we were, we were stopped still. We actually went back by seven miles, um, over the 10 days that we were, um, we were being hit, uh, which actually wasn't anywhere near, as far as some boats went back several hundred miles. So we were quite lucky that as far as that, um, but yeah, that took a lot of reframing. And I think that that time, although we didn't physically row in that time, um, was one of the hardest, because it was so frustrating physically couldn't go anywhere. There's no point in trying to grow. Um, so we just had to sort of sit tight and knowing that, you know, that gold goal was, um, was slipping away without, and there was nothing we could do about it. Um, so yeah, so a lot of reframing and re um, sort of re establishing what, what the event was all about. So, and I think that it was at that point, going back to what we talked about earlier, um, we realized that actually, this is a, this is a journey. This isn't, how quick can we get across? Um, sorry, my phone's ringing.
Speaker 2 00:19:09 Um, no, so yeah, not how, uh, how quick we can get across, but, um, but actually the, um, you know, the journey and to sort of relax and enjoy it and look at the finish and, you know, and enjoy the, the situation that we're in.
Speaker 0 00:19:22 So, so that became, I mean, you had gold, silver and bronze goals, but actually did all that, just go by the wayside when you realized this is an opportunity, which we perhaps never might do it again, let's live in this moment.
Speaker 2 00:19:36 I mean, I know I was sort of broadens goal was, um, to, to just get to the other side and still be talking to each other. So, so that way
Speaker 0 00:19:44 Some people would say it's a gold goal, you know, but
Speaker 2 00:19:47 Yeah, that was sort of our fallback. And, you know, I honestly can't remember what the silver was. There must have been something in between, um, or maybe it was no, I know what it was and we did actually achieve it. Yeah. Maybe I'll come back to that. Um, uh, yes. So, so there was a lot of reevaluation that had to go on, um, during that time, um, we suggest during the race, um, the, because it was such a heavy weather race, um, there are lots of incidents. So 26 folks started prior to our race. No a boat had ever rolled, although the boats are designed to be able to roll and, and right themselves, but no boat, they'd never been tested on the ocean. Um, we rolled four times, um, during the, during the 60 day, uh, there were, I can't remember actually how many roles there were altogether, but, um, six of the boats were lost at sea. Uh, thankfully everybody was rescued. Um, but it really brought it home to us. How, when the first boat, I remember it was some Irish chap's when they, um, had to be rescued. I really, you know, you sort of brought it home to you as you were in a really nasty situation, all that sort of brash talk about breaking records and you know, how fast can you do it? It puts it in perspective. She's an old crikey, you know, guaranteed to come out.
Speaker 0 00:21:08 And were you getting all of that over the radio net? Did you did your situational awareness? We were aware of all that at the time,
Speaker 2 00:21:15 15 years ago. And it's interesting how things, um, how much more modern things are nowadays. But, um, we were receiving emails via sat phone from my sister who was our sort of, uh, daily, um, teacher, but update us on a, on a daily basis on what had happened. So we didn't know straight away until she would send us something to say, you know, this boat's gone with that boat. So this, you know, that they're here and they're there. So we, we didn't really know until a couple of days later. Um,
Speaker 0 00:21:45 Yeah, you're absolutely right. Just the enormity of the whole thing. It's, it's, it's, I mean, I haven't, I've never done that kind of Atlantic challenge, but bringing it back to my experience with iron man, and that's a goal setting, it's always the three goals first is, is to complete it because you're investing so much time and energy and you've spent years getting to that point. There's no point not completing. It has always got to be a primary goal. Second thing I always say, and it's in this order is to enjoy it, which is that piece. You talk about that the moment spotting the fish, enjoying all this quality time, you've got you with the partner or whatever, you know, and then point number three is get a fast time, but it always has to be in that order for me, because if you've got to complete it to get a fast time, what's the sense in doing it, if you're not enjoying it. And I think through enjoying it and living in that moment, actually, you probably will get a faster time. And I guess that's a lot of what you're speaking to there as well, especially the delicate nature and how precarious your situation could be, um, being focused on, well, let's just get this there's complete there. So, and that, that in itself is like I say, it could be a gold goal for most people.
Speaker 2 00:22:53 Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um, I mean, I certainly under no illusion that I enjoyed every second of it and, uh,
Speaker 0 00:23:02 15 years hindsight and perhaps it's more enjoyable now looked. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:23:05 Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um, but it's funny, you know, it had been flowed and, um, I think actually the most difficult times were when we spoke to family back at home on the phone and that's when, um, you know, we were out there over Christmas day and it's talking to them on Christmas day. I mean, that's when all the sort of emotions and the, um, uh, everything's, I think it's put into, put into perspective. Um, you know, and so I've been floods of tears talking to my poor mom and then hang up the phone and five minutes later it would be laughing cause there's a dolphin and all this, you know, there's something really exciting going on. And so I think the impression I left with my parents was that I was having a miserable time and I didn't want to be there, which wasn't true at all. It was a snapshot and unfortunately snapshot, they, they got,
Speaker 0 00:23:46 Oh, fantastic. So we talked about your parents, but as a parent yourself, how much of these experiences, um, inform your approach to parenting and, and wanting your children to, to become the adults that you'd need to be? I mean, how does that sort of translate to a lot of us listening here are all parents ourselves translate for them,
Speaker 2 00:24:08 The message I always try and give to them. Um, I mean, I, I was sporty Aisha at school, but I was certainly never anything special. Um, and the message I try and give is that school, isn't the end. It's not, um, you know, what you do at school, doesn't tick all the boxes for the rest of your life. It's a starting point and it's, uh, it's something for you to build on and obviously it's important, but, um, I see a lot of people, um, at their school that, you know, that at schools in general, who are hugely high achieving academically or sporting, and actually very often, those are the ones who don't then go on to achieve particularly in later life. And I think it's the ones that maybe struggle a bit more at school, um, who have that sort of, they want to push themselves a bit more because they didn't feel maybe that they, you know, they, they, um, did enough at school or, um, or actually that, you know, if you struggle at school, you realize that actually you're going to have to struggle and push and, and keep moving as life goes on where I don't think know a lot of people come out of school and rest on their laurels.
Speaker 2 00:25:14 So the message to my kids is that it doesn't matter if you're not excelling. You know, you're not top of the class. It doesn't matter. It's about keeping moving forward. And, um, somebody said something when we finished the Atlantic row, um, a great quote that I heard from somebody was, um, don't, you can't dine out on one thing for the rest of your life. Um, and I think that's, that's really important. I think so many people, you know, something like that is a big challenge. And I think so many people get to the end of it and go brilliant. Well, that set me up for the rest of my life. That's all I need to do. And it's just not true. You have to keep moving forward and you have to keep finding the next thing as you talk about with him, man, you know, you can't just sit back and say brilliant, done that I'm set for life.
Speaker 0 00:25:58 Well, that's, that's interesting. And I think what you're speaking to there in sort of academic circles is the work of professor Carol Dweck and this idea of growth and fixed mindset. So the growth mindset is, you know, seeing honoring the process, pushing yourself and the application of effort and learning through that effort rather than the fixed mindset, which is while I either can, or I can't and features dealt me a hand and I'm either clever or I'm not. And you know, that the academic world has kind of referenced and labeled exactly what you've just described there, this idea of just putting yourself out there, learn and iterate. And also that whole, I love that quote, you can't, what was it called? Dine out. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:26:44 I can't dine out on one thing.
Speaker 0 00:26:45 Oh yeah. And so many people do perhaps and, uh, and I think that's, um, yeah, and that's where my, I keep kind of, even though I have fallen in and out of love with iron mountain, you've fallen in and out of love of endurance things. We always keep coming back to it because it's back to that point of it's part of that process. But I think so much of it, our identities are wrapped up in this it's, it's how we perhaps express ourselves the best I'm on. And I come up absolutely alive when I'm talking about it, but equally I feel most alive when I'm in it. And, you know, I had that period where from my sort of heart operation through the next sort of four years, I kind of lost my mojo with this stuff. And, um, but then it was rekindled when we qualified for GB and it was, I actually, do you know what this is?
Speaker 0 00:27:30 Uh, this is a drug, a healthy drug, which I like, but, but it's because it's part of my identity in my, my wanting to push myself or just to learn and see where the boundaries are. I think it that's great. So if we can impart some of that with our kids and be great, he says with his kids still in bed cause they're teenagers, but iPads. So, um, wait, what kind of, I mean, this is fascinating. We could talk all day about this. Um, let's, let's kind of really drill it down into some of the, you talked about reframing, you've talked about, you know, how you kind of reset your goals and everything else like this, but how does, how does Liz give herself the chat in some of those crucible moments or even some of the everyday moments where you just don't feel like it?
Speaker 2 00:28:15 I think, I mean to, well, anecdotally, um, to talk about the rowing, uh, there was, there was one moment when, when we wrote, um, which I think brings, I think it sort of brought everything together. I think there were probably a lot of chat moments. Um, but this one is certainly one. I still remember 15 years later, it was, uh, after our third role, um, we heard, uh, that's right. We'd rolled, uh, brought a second role to be in the middle of the night third role. We were trying to amend the rudder, which had broken that's a whole other story. Um, and I had Richard had been thrown off the boat as we rolled and I was sitting in the rowing seat. My feet were, so it's a bit like cycling your feet are kind of clipped into the, to the rowing position. They're sort of tied in.
Speaker 2 00:29:00 Um, so as I went out the side of the boat, I hit my, my calf muscle on, on the site, on the, or on side of the boat as I went out, um, possibly ruptured the calf muscle, I don't know. Uh, and as I kinda clambered back on most to recover Richards, um, and I, uh, realized that my cough was some cramping. It was really painful. Um, and I knew I was injured. Um, and I knew that that was my potential. I'm a celebrity, get me out with him moments. Um, and we actually phoned out and support them to support bikes, um, which we saw one right at the beginning of the race and one rice at the end. And we didn't see them at all in between. Um, and we find out, then we said, look, please, can you just come and see us?
Speaker 2 00:29:45 Um, we need you to be here right now. And, uh, they took 18 hours. I think it was to get to our position. And during that time, that night, I mean, my cough was already painful, but, um, I had a dream that night that I imagined myself being winched off the boat by helicopter. The helicopter was going to get to us mid ocean. I don't know. Um, but I imagined, and I, and I sort of had this dream and I just saw this little boat that had been our friend and our home and our life, uh, what was a month and a half by then, um, kind of floating off by itself with nobody on it. And then I think that was the real moment that I went, no, no, I'm not getting off this boat. You know, it whatever's going on with my calf, whatever, you know, the rod is broken, relying sideways onto the waves.
Speaker 2 00:30:29 It's all going a bit wrong, but I'm not getting off this boat cause I'll regress it. And I'll, you know, I was telling you in my dream, I felt so deeply upset that this idea of leaving abandoning this quote that had been the, you know, that had saved us so many times, um, that I just don't know that that's it. I think that was sort of my, you know, the, the internal chat moment that I gave myself then. But I mean, translating that to, to everyday situations, I think it's, you know, without realizing it, I think we all do it, um, all the time. And I think it comes back to, um, doing things that I'm doing things early because I'm leaving them until later actually makes it a lot harder. I'm a real, I'm a real planner. So, um, I like to, you know, even silly things when I'm getting up to do an early training session, I have to have all my kit ready, all my drinks ready. Everything has to be already the night before because actually doing it the next morning is real pain leaving, leaving it until two later. So it's annoying having to get it already the night before, but, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's, it makes things easier later on down the line.
Speaker 0 00:31:41 Well, it's that idea of, um, you know, what's hard now becomes easy later on or it's the manifestation of delayed gratification and, and I think you're absolutely right. We don't have to be in a boat mid Atlantic having rolled for the time, um, with possibly, you know, a limiting injury to realize actually those moments come every day. It's that moment where the alarm goes off and you've made every best intention to get up and get on with the day. And you think, no, I'm just going to hit snooze. It's that because it feels easy then, but then it's harder later because you start your day on the back foot or you haven't done that, or you live with that regret. I mean, that's a really strong one for me is I often reframe things. So, I mean, again, it's slightly cliched, but pain is temporary.
Speaker 0 00:32:25 Pride is forever. It's like if you can connect to the pride that you're feel having gone to the gym instead of the pain that you're going to feel with, let myself down again, it's as simple and fundamental as that. And I think those moments come every single day and particularly in the morning I made that kind of commitment. Yeah, it's a, it really is. How do you, how do you really sort of focus on how good things will be or how your field getting back in that boat and carrying on, you know, it's, this would be a wholly different podcast episode. How do you got in that helicopter? I dare say knowing you though you would have gone back the next year and kind of finished.
Speaker 2 00:33:05 I don't know. I'm not never getting re revisiting things. Um, yeah,
Speaker 0 00:33:10 It's fascinating. It's fascinating. And, um, I mean, I've got another question for you and just tell me to butt out if this is too personal, but what did it do for your, your relationship, um, once you got out of that boat and like you say, you were teammates and then you had to sort of reconnect to being as a couple, but how has that helped you in your, in your partnership with Richard?
Speaker 2 00:33:34 I think, I mean, yeah, as you say, I think when, when we got out the boat, the other end, we definitely needed to, um, we, you know, we were very good at, uh, kind of being together, um, on, you know, as a team on board. Um, and we, yeah, we just had to sort of, uh, find ourselves without going to any detail. Um, but I think, yeah, I mean for, for a long time, and I think this has probably worn off a little bit now, but I think for a long time, um, it stayed with both of us, you know, well, if we can, if we can get through that, we can get through anything. Um, I think it's, it's a funny thing in a way, um, that we, because the weather was so bad when we were out there, um, it almost, it made us stronger than it would have been if actually it had been a lot easier.
Speaker 2 00:34:23 Um, if the weather had been quite benign and we just rode, and I think it probably would have been harder for, for both of us as a couple, but because we are, we were kind of brought together, I suppose, a bit like surviving a trauma. It sounds a bit dramatic, but it was, you know, because in part it was really nasty out there. Um, I think that probably, um, made us stronger and gave us a lot more to build on later. So, I mean, I think probably the next, uh, very difficult time in, in our relationship was, you know, having children and, um, the huge change that, that bought, um, and being able to actually go back and go, okay, well, we've been through an awful lot worse than this. Um, you know, we're not 600 miles from land with no rudder and potential injury where actually we're okay. Um, so yeah, I mean it does it, you know, it's difficult and it certainly brings a different dynamic to, um, other teams and other, other people that have done, um, anything sporting together. Um, so I think it helps,
Speaker 0 00:35:30 Oh, wait, so you want me to say a huge challenge, but I think, you know, so to bring it back to every it's that, you know, they often say that, you know, to, to build confidence, go do things that take confidence. I, so, you know, if you want to be a confident public speaker, go, go and give a presentation. And despite the fact that actually you don't feel confident, the experience actually builds resilience to your point, is that what we've handled far tougher than this? Or, you know, back to the public speaking? Well, I handled it when the projector broke. So really there's nothing that should phase me. And I think it's those experiences. And it's back to you talking about your kids, you know, go and have a go because by doing so, it doesn't matter. I mean, there's a great line that I've been reflecting on recently. It's, um, you know, you don't have to be, um, great to start, but you do have to start to be great. And I think the more starts you have and experiences, the more resilient you become, whether that's rowing the Atlantic or, or your next corporate presentation to the board. Right?
Speaker 2 00:36:32 No, absolutely. And I think, I mean, something, I certainly tell my children and their friends when I get the opportunity is, um, seize every opportunity that comes along, you know, it, it may not look like an opportunity. It may not look like anything, but if you're, if somebody comes up to you in the school corridor and says, do you want to have a go at this? Or, you know, you want to join a dance club or enter an art competition or something take yes, absolutely take it. You know, it may lead nowhere. It may come to nothing, but it may come to something amazing. And I think, you know, had I not said to that finance director, gosh, 18 years ago, um, you know, we'd quite like to enter that race. We probably actually wouldn't have done because it probably would have just passed us by, and maybe would've done it at some point, but, um, you know, it was it's those, those little sort of nuggets and there's little opportunities grasping them and going, yeah, actually it doesn't mean you have to change your life. Um, but just doing those little things that then lead to bigger things, um, is, is quite important.
Speaker 0 00:37:34 Liz, I think that's a great point to jump off, um, what a great way to finish the episode. I know this has been your, your first podcast experience. I think you listen to your first podcast any last week or so. So it's a week of first podcast wise. Uh, but I've got to say, it's been, it's always a pleasure talking with you. Um, and, and thank you very much for bringing that story and Ivan and helping Soren and perhaps a few episodes down the road. We'll, we'll get you back on and we'll talk about how that, that second iron man you've entered with me about that. Thanks very much. Please take care of yourself.
Speaker 1 00:38:07 Brilliant. Thanks very much.
Speaker 0 00:38:13 An amazing woman, Liz mountain white is a absolute inspiration and so glad that she agreed to be a guest on the give herself the chat podcast. And considering should only listen to a podcast week before this recording again. It's a great honor. Um, so if you enjoyed that one, if you enjoyed the exploits and lessons, you can learn from not only the Atlantic, but bringing into your life, then feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. That's where the is going on. Um, suggest which guests or topics you'd like me to cover into the future. And I'll see what I can do for you, but in the meantime, keep yourself fit and healthy and I'll see you on the next one. Thank you.
