Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hello, my name is Peter Lewis and welcome to the, give yourself the chat podcast, the show dedicated to a life
Speaker 1 00:00:06 Performance.
Speaker 0 00:00:12 No, everyone. Welcome to give yourself the chat podcast. Uh, this is, uh, this is my second episode now, and I'm delighted to say that I've got a chapter. Um, I've never actually met in person, um, but with Corona virus and everything else like that, I've, I've met virtually and we just hit it off straight away. Um, our Humes has joined me today, so, uh, very good morning to you. Um, how are you? Uh, good morning pizza. Yeah, I'm really well at this study in the, uh, in the circumstances, I guess I'm getting way getting used to new way of operating, I guess, from home and, uh, trying to try to devise a routine as well and keep up a routine it's challenging, you know, when you've got children and you know, other commitments, and you're trying to keep everything as normal as you can do.
Speaker 0 00:00:57 I've got a younger, a younger daughter who's six. He doesn't quite, you know, mentioning the word, but doesn't quite grasp what's going on. So it's trying to keep an element of normality, which I'm sure you'll appreciate. It's quite challenging. It is. I mean, I've, I've been chatting to loads of people and I didn't quite realize how difficult the whole working from home can be when you've got young kids who just see mum and dad and surely that's play time. Um, whereas I'm quite fortunate. My children are pushing 18 and 15. I don't see them before one in the afternoon because teenagers just don't get up. And I know my son's awake because the wifi really gets a caning, you know? So, um, I, I completely understand the challenge that it has and, and coaching a lot of people about how do you actually do this working from home, like is it can be hard work and video calls.
Speaker 0 00:01:48 Yes. Exhausting actually. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, my legs are killing me cause I haven't, I've never spent so much time on the trampoline to be honest, six year old just says, daddy, daddy, come on, you know, trampoline. And you know, you know, you don't want to, you don't want to quell their sort of enthusiasm. So you go and have a bounce for it's a whole new, it's interesting, isn't it, especially in our world, um, that's people facing very much based on interaction and um, you know, and then you suddenly lose that kind of face to face human connection and, you know, uh, the ability to sort of read people's emotions or their body language, et cetera, et cetera, whilst you can kind of still do that through that to some degree in this medium, it's very constraining, but yeah, so it's a challenge, definitely a challenge.
Speaker 0 00:02:45 And it's, I guess it sounds like you're in the same place where you're thinking, okay. So how do we, how do we, how do we sort of adjust our approach? It's interesting last week? So I was meant to, to Edinburgh, to a conference. And in fact, the week before, and I'm for 64 people and the organization I was working with say, you know, we still want to go on with this, but could we get a little bit creative about it? So we had to think about it. I mean, he was literally two or three days out. And so we ran it in the end. Um, and we ran it as a debate. Um, and, and it works really well. Um, tested the technology to some degree. Um, we tested that technology as well. And actually there was, there was elements of it that were, that weren't up to speed, went up to up to snuff really.
Speaker 0 00:03:37 So, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting times as well. It's interesting. And I know, I know a lot of people are suffering and, uh, but, but equally there is also the opportunity and I think certainly what I've done and very much in keeping with give yourself the chat. It's like, well, okay, I can sit on my hands here or I can get proactive. I can try. And up-skill, and, and we'll find a little bit more about your background in a second, what you're up to right now, but you know, all my work was, was offline work. Like you just said, your client in Edinburgh. Um, so now I've been sort of hustling hard to pivot to the online space. And I'm one of the one, the outputs of that is this, this, this podcast, you know, and this conversation with you, my friend, and just for the listeners, um, point of view, we've only met virtually, this is the second time we've spoken, but we kind of, I think we were both engaged with some LinkedIn chat thread and something I posted about service really resonated with you.
Speaker 0 00:04:35 And that's how we struck a conversation. And when I sort of talked about this podcast idea, you were very helpful in helping me shape those, those ideas. So I thank you in advance for that. Um, because I know, I think I'm one, one or two episodes ahead of you. This is your first podcast. This is my first, this is my podcast, cherry being pot, all that to say that, but it's definitely that, I don't know how I feel about that, but I get it. I get it. It is actually, you know, I think, um, I I'm naturally a, uh, probably a reserved kind of guy. I like my own space. I like to reflect on things. And, uh, although, um, you know, we have similarities in our backgrounds. And I think, again, that was part of the connection is that as you go through your life and your career and everything, it kind of develops you and puts you into those areas that you're not comfortable and really gets you to do that stuff. And, um, which is great. And it, you know, it goes back to that, that, that, that phrase of character building, you know, and I think it's, it really is true. So I feel much more comfortable now. And I think, you know, if you asked me to do this 20 years ago, uh, you know, I'll be mortified, but, um, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:05:58 Yeah, it's good. Do you know what the amazing thing is is that, well, I think, well, this has done in many ways is that you start to connect with people and we're going to talk about obviously about clubs and values today, but you start to connect with, cause you can see it come through their, their, their content and what they're saying, those sort of those values, so shared values, then you go, actually, I really, I really agree with that. And, uh, that really resonates with me and, you know, they're being honest, they fit, it feels authentic as well. And I, I, that's the sort of sense I got with you and actually quite a few other people that have commented on posts. I thought, you know, there's a, there's a real collective sort of a sense of, I was going to say humanity, that's probably been a little bit philosophical, but in terms of, you know, like minded people, I guess, which is a great thing,
Speaker 3 00:06:57 It is, it's a shame in many ways or the opportunity that's all hand has been forced to do that, but I think much good will come out of this and you say, we kind of hit it off around the conversation of service. And so when I floated a, a range of subjects to you, I know that purpose and values was kind of really resonated and wanted to talk about state, which we'll go into a little bit later on, but just, you know, for my benefit as well as the listeners, of course, um, bring us up to date with, what's brought you here now in terms of, I know we have a shared background with military service and, and, and actually, I didn't know any of that one before, you know, we, we kind of sort of hit it off is only our first call. We realized actually there's a lot of parallels there, but equally there's a lot of work you're doing in, uh, in the elite sports space and involve in humanitarian stuff. So there's an awful lot there, but just kind of pick out some of the highlights to give us some context about, uh, you know, our, the man and what kind of brings you to your, this point in your life.
Speaker 2 00:07:55 Yeah. It's um, I guess, like you say, there's a lot of history there and sometimes it's just sitting there reflecting back on your career, but, um, and I sort of did that over the last couple of days, just trying to think after our conversation. Okay. Let's have a real price on what, what, what got me here, I guess, um, probably start with the presidencies. Yeah. So I've been out in the military for two years. Um, and I do foot in a couple of camps, really. Uh, I chaired a number of, uh, uh, panels, independent panels on behalf of UK sports and went into, uh, UK, sorry, um, world-class programs. Um, and they were, they were effectively cultural health check. So it was going in and speaking to the, to the sport, to the athletes, coaches, et cetera, uh, spending two or three days with them.
Speaker 2 00:08:43 Um, and then formulating a report. And it was really just to say, look, these are, these are the areas you're doing really well in. And, but, you know, we w through our observations and acknowledging it's, it's, it's, uh, it's a snapshot, um, you know, where you could focus on some energy here as well. So that was one that was one element. And then I guess I was, I said to you the other day, I was probably 10 years behind human, where you are. And, um, I worked with organizations and some infrastructure projects in London as well, and design and deliver Lea leadership programs, but they're a little bit more involved than that. So if we look at behaviors, we look at culture, what, you know, what environment are you trying to create? So they're mine. They were my, for the last two years, cutting my teeth as it were.
Speaker 2 00:09:32 Uh, and I've, I've thoroughly enjoyed that. It's been, I've worked with some amazing people. The first, first, um, first panel that I chaired, I had Ben Ryan, the, uh, Fijians sevens, Olympic coach, Olympic Goldman, the winning coach sat to my left and then the chief medical officer for the FAA on my right and talking about imposter syndrome. Oh my God, these people, you know, but I, I think it's, um, I think then you very quickly reach back and say, look, draw in all the experience you've, you've had yes. In a different world, but you can bring that to the fore. So that has been for the fast, for the last two years, um, starting a new venture. Um, and, and coronavirus has definitely put a pause on this, but with my business partners, and I'm looking at developing immersive exercises and, uh, or immersive experiences, should I say, and it's a, we work with a fantastic charity in Salisbury called serve on the Humana humanitarian response charity.
Speaker 2 00:10:39 Uh, they have a, uh, international response team. Uh, they go out to major disasters, earthquakes, hurricanes it's actually, and they have community resilience teams and we've, we've kind of partnered with them and we run these, uh, sort of 24 to 48 to 72 hours, uh, experiences. And it's really wrapped around how do you, how do you embed purpose of meaning into the mission into what you're doing? So we take an activity like a disaster response activity down on their training area. And we run people from organizations through that, um, which I think is a slightly different way of delivering and probably a lot of, sort of what I would say, leadership team building type activities. That's on pause at the moment, uh, obviously, uh, but we're still working in the background. It does give us a bit of space actually, to try and refine it. Yeah, that's me, that's me re UpToDate.
Speaker 3 00:11:37 Oh, fantastic. There's loads in there. There's um, I made a few notes as you were speaking, and there's a couple of things I, at a very personal level when you were describing being next to the, uh, the Fiji and rugby coach and the FAA representative, whatever you, that, that imposter syndrome, which I know a lot of us feel and face. And, uh, you know, there is a classic opportunity when you're feeling, you know, do I belong here or who am I to, to be able to that that's a time to give yourself a chat? Doesn't it? I mean, how, how did, how do you kind of deal with that? Because so many of our listeners and myself included, we all feel that, and I think we have to legitimize imposter syndrome, but how do you personally kind of get, get over yourself?
Speaker 2 00:12:23 Yeah, it's, it's a really good question. And I think it's looking back at your own history and looking at those moments, you know, in your own career and time, um, that actually you've had to do that in a way, you know, and I think, you know, we share a military background and, uh, you know, just going up through the rank system, you, you are perpetually always sort of you're at the next rank and you think, can I actually do this? Um, you know, I went through the ranks and then got to wr and then commissioned from there. And again, you take that giant leap into a slightly different world. Uh, and, and you question yourself, but I think very quickly you realize, and, and, and that's what happened with UK. The work for UK sport is, you know, you've, you've gathered all these skillsets. Um, and, and I think, you know, you go back to your own personal philosophy and your own personal values and saying, I can do this, I've done it before, maybe in a slightly different guys.
Speaker 2 00:13:26 Um, but I just need to, just to, you know, go back to my framework, my frame of reference to, to, to be able to conduct this and, and it works and very quickly just get into it, you roll with it and you get on with it. And, um, I think a lot of people resonate with that. You know, they're always, there is always that self doubt. And I think that's a healthy thing sometimes, because I think in many ways, it kind of boots out, you know, the arrogance and, uh, you know, the ego into the, into the long grass times, we do carry that. And I think ego can be a dangerous thing sometimes. Um,
Speaker 3 00:14:05 Oh, absolutely. They, the whole, it's interesting. I've read, read around this subject. The more qualified people on the more experienced are then the more they tend to feel the imposter syndrome. And I think that's linked with the idea, or even though they, that they are tremendously experienced, they, they recognize there's still so much to learn. It's that sort of growth mindset piece. Whereas the opposite of imposter syndrome is said to be the Dunning-Kruger effect, which is that a little bit of knowledge and hubris and overconfidence in that knowledge means that what I say, I know everything I can go and do this. So actually imposter syndrome, the way I've reframed it is if I'm feeling this that's a good sign, because it's just telling me that actually, okay, there's, this is a learning experience. This is something to embrace. And it is just a of looking at food or being, but actually these fears never really manifest. So it is, yeah. The more qualified you are actually, the more you tend to feel imposter syndrome, which seems a little bit perverse. I know, but
Speaker 2 00:15:03 Yeah, I think in many ways it drives curiosity. I think if you, if your favorite drive curiosity and whatever you're doing, and you do take that backseat and how many people have you met pizza that, you know, they just go on permanent sand and, you know, they just talk until it's all without, as, you know, as it's been discussed in a lot of arenas, you know, you only have to read HBR or something like that. Um, you know, in terms of the power of listening, but be able to just step back and actually be curious about what you, you know, the job you're going to do there, and I'm really engaged the people around you. And I think, I think that gets people on board really, really quickly.
Speaker 3 00:15:41 Yeah. Yeah. It's a, and you also mentioned, uh, ego there as well. I, I'm a big fan of, uh, have you come across in Ryan holiday who, uh, he's um, prolific author, he's written a book called the obstacle is the way, um, ego is the enemy and stillness is the key, and it's very much sort of focused on the philosophy of stoicism. Um, he talks about ego being the enemy, and it's just, you need to park that. And you know, when I'm working with clients in, in meetings or whatever, I said, look, leave your ego at the door. Um, you can pick it up on the way out, you know, because it would just get in the way. And I think having the self awareness to recognize when your ego is getting in the way is again, it's an endearing feature and function for other people because they recognize that humility or they recognize you're deliberately trying to, to make good of a situation.
Speaker 3 00:16:32 And it's not about you. And I think that's so much of what we're going to speak to today around purpose and values and everything else. Um, you know, the ego component, part of that, it's, it's all kind of wrapped in. So let me ask you kind of transitioning to that, the sort of subject of today's episode, I gave you a long list, you chose, uh, purpose and values. Um, so tell me why that really kind of resonated and then really let's kind of see where that takes us in terms of the work you're doing or your own philosophy around this.
Speaker 2 00:17:01 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think it resonated with me and it jumped out at me, uh, you know, the others just fell to the wayside because for me, they, it bleeds into all of those other topic areas. You know, I think it's foundational that, um, even just doing some, you know, some basic work around, but not only we could probably approach this into two ways is having your own sort of personal purpose and your values, but also talking about it in terms of organizations as well and how, how you get those to marry up. And when they do that can be extremely powerful. Um, so yeah, for me, it just jumped out because, you know, it leads into in terms of decision making, uh, you know, um,
Speaker 0 00:17:50 What else sort of major decisions within your life and how you actually live your life as well in terms of how, how are you going to map this out? What's the roadmap going to look like? And I think it becomes easier than to think I need to live according to my own purpose values philosophy. And I think, I think really importantly, cause people talk about identity as well. You know, what's your identity, you know, once, once you understand that kind of purpose and the values, so that really informs your identity. Um, I think the litmus test to that is then do other people recognize that and you, you know, cause you can tell yourself it's only a one 80, isn't it? You can say, this is, this is me. This is who I am. This is how I operate, but that actually might not be what other people see.
Speaker 0 00:18:38 So the behaviors and I loved your sort of post a few weeks ago, it's talking about, uh, you know, your values being anchored to the seabed and yes, you know, and, and, and the, the C being the sort of environment that surrounds you and as long as you stay true to them, then, then I think, you know, you can, you can navigate your way through some, some difficult decisions and planning, you know, what you're going to do next as well. I love the fact that you've now just give me confirmation that one person has read my article on LinkedIn. And I say, I create these episodes. I'm assuming that nobody's listening. And I write articles and blog posts. So assuming nobody's reading. And I say, if, if this just affects one person or gets one person to think differently than my work is done. So thank you.
Speaker 0 00:19:30 It was really good. It was a fantastic, um, now Jay I've thought, um, and it really resonated my alpha, Oh, I'm going to, I, you know, someone said to me, the best coaches are thieves and they are, you know, they'll still, they'll still everything that is good. I, I, I can't, I was going to say, I need to remember who to attribute that metaphor to, and for the listeners, it's just saying that you are, your values are the anchor on the seabed and your, if you're rooted to a clear set of purpose and values, then your behaviors can change with the sea state. So if it's calm, but if it's a, if it's a boy, totally the point here is that your behaviors, as long as they're tethered to something more meaningful, like your purpose and your values, then actually you will be able to navigate all the trials and tribulations and rough seas.
Speaker 0 00:20:17 And, and that really kind of resonated with me. And I think it's interesting. It's when I've worked with clients in the past and a lot of the work I do on leadership programs, we talk about module one, you know, what is run about selfies? What is, what are your values and what are your purpose? And I'm yet to meet a group that has done any serious work on that. So we've got a lot of people who are in leadership positions out there who might talk about mission of the organization. And perhaps even the why, because that's really quite popular with Simon Sinex work has no, which I'm a big fan
Speaker 3 00:20:48 Of, but a lot of organizations are jumping on this. Why, but it's interesting. The leaders within the organization have never given it a second thought. Some of them might have an idea what their values are, but when you drill even further and say, okay, what's your purpose. So many people kind of miss this. And yet it's such a fundamental thing. And I'm always want curious as to know why is that with the human condition? Why don't we really do more serious work on this stuff?
Speaker 2 00:21:12 Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I think the organizers, the organizations that do it well, and I think that the leaders that really get it, and I actually do do some homework behind it, you know, really spend some time. And that might not just be a couple of days, weeks, months, years in many ways, look at the organization we were in, you know, we had a very strong set of values, but that was forged in a hundred years, hundreds of years of history, um, you know, yes, they're imposed on us and they hang on posters and everything, but they have gone through that sort of fire pit of, um, you know, forming them. And, um, I think those organizations that do it well, do that homework. And then what they do really well is simplify. So that it's understandable. Um, they should be, uh, you know, because you go into a lot of places where you see those values just hanging on the wall, but actually when you go and ask, you know, individuals at any level, what do they mean? What do they mean to the organization? And what do they mean to you? And often they can't explain them. They're just words on a wall that look pretty, there's a nice poster. And I think, I think you can have external looking values for the organization. Uh, and I think you can have those internal values as well, and they should certainly mirror each other, but they might speak differently to the different audiences.
Speaker 3 00:22:43 That's a very interesting point. You made there because as you were talking sprung to mind, one of my clients, uh, they'll remain nameless, but, um, one of the internal values, which didn't match the values you can read on the website was don't be a Dick, which was, yeah, don't be selfish now. They didn't put that on their website. It would have been articulated in another way, but don't be a Dick. Everyone got that and understood what that meant. Whereas you can go in some organizations to your point, the poster there, you know, honesty, integrity, communicate, whatever. And I say to them, well, companies like Enron, you know, that, that huge kind of failure. So 20 odd years ago, and so malpractice, they had values that spoke off, you know, we treat each other well and we're honest and everything else and look what happened to them. So your point about living and breathing it, but also understanding it so important. That'd be a Dick.
Speaker 2 00:23:33 Yeah. I think, I don't know if I know the organization you're on about, but there's certainly when I've seen it most effectively as you walk into their office, that phrase is emblazoned on their wall, sort of like six foot high. So that, that communicates internally. Okay. So I think in many ways, one time, you know, some values become, uh, what should I feel just be accepted human behaviors, as in, you know, um, you know, this should be the basics. We shouldn't have to tell you about this. Our values are, this is who we are and this is what we do around here. And I definitely stolen that. Um, so I worked with one of the projects I worked on was with a guy called Owen eastward. Now own these words, um, is a performance coach. He was working with the New Zealand, all blacks he's mentioned in legacy of the great book and a South African cricket team, FAA, South gate, et cetera.
Speaker 2 00:24:30 So, uh, very well, uh, highly regarded, uh, focus on culture, performance coach. And, um, you know, he, he sort of broke it down and talking about, um, you know, a team's identity. And it really does go back to the explaining, I guess you're explaining to the organization that this is who we are. This is what makes us different. Uh, this is how we go about our business, you know, and, and that should be understood from top to bottom. And going back to your point in terms of leadership, I think even if sometimes leadership get it and they do the homework where it falls down sometimes is that, is that cascade of communication down, making sure that everyone absolutely understands his on his own point, you know, and understands and can ask questions around it as well. Um, you know, so that they can effectively live those values as well, or try to live those values.
Speaker 2 00:25:26 Cause what we can't forget is you, and I know we fail, you know, often with them, we get it wrong and I've certainly got it wrong, many a time in my career, um, you know, and, and had to come back into lane quite quickly. So it acts as a really powerful framework to realign as well. And I think, and he uses the phrase alignment, it's that alignment through the organization. And have you communicated that well? Uh, and, and, and it often falls down in the middle. Sometimes I describe it as middle management, but effectively is that it hasn't really cascaded well down to, I guess, the, the workforce or the athletes, et cetera. So as ever as low to now, when I'm pack this, I'm a big fan of an author called Patrick Lencioni five dysfunctions with team and advantage. And he talks about organizational health and very simple model to understand. But you said actually, as a leader, your role then becomes to become the CRO, the chief repeating officer, to your point, you can't just put them up on the wall and expect people to live and breathe them. You have a leader and manager, or even just a team member has to model the way and you really do have to keep reinforcing it. And I guess for
Speaker 3 00:26:44 Those who are business owners, executives, or anyone listening to this, um, what you want is people to come back to you and say, look, do you know what we understand already, or to even preempt what you're going to say? Cause you've said it so many times, if you think you're over communicating it, then just keep going because you probably haven't. So there's that. And also want to go back to, um, fabulous book on the WebEx legacy. I just loved that book. And again, this is, if you haven't read this one, it's a, you know, really speaks to the purpose and values and what has made the all blacks, such a dominant team over decades, you know, not just a snapshot in time. And I think one of the valleys that correct me if I'm wrong is it's sweet.
Speaker 2 00:27:22 Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:27:25 And tell us a little bit, what do you remember about that? Cause I was really struck with, you know, how that particular value is wrapped up in humility. It's wrapper, it's ego less, it's all sorts of things. Why don't we just
Speaker 2 00:27:38 I'll probably draw, I'll actually draw on my military experience and I guess any, any service man or woman that's listening to this will will see this and feel this is that, you know, it is about doing, you know, those little things. Um, it is about, you know, making sure on a phrase, I forgot his name had come down at Sandhurst years ago, you know, to see it through to the end to make sure. So then, you know, once the match is finished for the all blinds, the ex you know, their philosophy says that they don't just leave it to the, you know, the cleanest to sweep the changing room up, they get down and they do the, they still do the hard yards as well, and they make sure that they, they don't forget that humility. Uh, and I think certainly with the all blacks, they have that, that spiritual element, uh, in terms of the Maori culture as well.
Speaker 2 00:28:30 And it is about, uh, you know, being humble. And I think that's probably reflective of, um, you know, uh, New Zealand, uh, people that come from New Zealand anyway, I've always found them very humble. Uh, and, uh, yeah, so I think it's really about that. And I think it sets a powerful message. And I think the other thing is it doesn't matter what your rank is. It doesn't matter what your status is. Actually, you are willing to get down and rub shoulders with the person next to you and sweep the floor. Um, you know, it doesn't matter how much you get paid, uh, and that makes it, that makes you human, uh, for star, which I think people readily, uh, appreciate. And, and actually, um, you know, that, that, that Ford is a really strong bond and a really strong connection. So it's those small little things.
Speaker 2 00:29:21 And I guess in, in the corporate world, you know, what would that look like? I mean, even the smallest thing, just going around, say morning to people connecting with people, you know, how's your day going, et cetera, you know, helping, you know, in your field coaching, uh, taking on that mentorship road, it's, it's developing those relationships. And I, I, going back to your point, so how do you, how do you forge your culture in an organization, in a sporting team and you are you're right. Do you have to re reiterate the message all the time? And I actually think part of, if you look at induction processes as well, induction is usually around processes, you know, um, I haven't seen many, I've seen a few, uh, our, our accounts around, uh, the coach yet, you know, going back to my point, this is who we are, this is how we do things around here.
Speaker 2 00:30:13 Um, so they fully understand that. Um, and in many ways that becomes, uh, becomes a bit of a filter because actually, if you're, if your values don't resonate with that organization's values, and then I would suspect you might not last that long. Um, so yeah, it's, uh, I, I go by it, it's definitely, you know, taking that ego out of the equation, being humble, being human, being available. Uh, and I, I appreciate that it's difficult in large organizations, but you can cascade that responsibility down to leaders at all levels. You know, it's not just about the sea, you go around to everyone.
Speaker 3 00:30:53 No, I absolutely agree that let's bring it perhaps closer to home now for us as individuals and those that are listening or the listener to this episode. Um, I, you know, I, I, I discovered a, it was interesting. I probably have done more reading around, uh, psychology self-help personal development since leaving the military than I ever did when I was in. And I often wonder knowing if you're knew, then what I know now, how much of a better leader might've been, but then equally you go through life learning all these lessons. And the one thing I I've had a personal sort of purpose statement if you like for the last 12 years or so, there's only recently, I've, I've really lent on it heavily. Um, you know, I've said in various posts, you know, I have suffered with some mild depression and, and downtimes and things like this.
Speaker 3 00:31:45 And it's one thing to, and this goes back to the point of really living. It's. One thing to have a purpose statement is one thing to have a set of values. But when you go massively out of whack with the amount of alignment with them, you realize how important they are when you can retire, tether back to it. And part of my journey and going public with just talking about it. Cause we all know now in sort of mental health is really important to talk about is actually realizing how far adrift I was from being aligned with my purpose and getting that alignment. And Congress back has helped me massively, but I'm somebody in the self help field. I'm somebody in this and it's like, even I forgot to swallow my own medicine. So tell me about how your purpose and your values have helped you navigate life's tribulations and troubles.
Speaker 2 00:32:34 Yeah, I guess, um, I I'd say I've only refined mine down to where I really think they should be probably in the last couple of years. Um, but I think intuitively they were also, and I've probably emanated from, you know, when I was growing up as a child, I grew up in Cornwall and then Devin. Um, and, um, I was kind of a, and so I went to a school in new key comprehensive, and then luckily my mum got a job as a, as a matron at an independent school in North Devon, uh, on X mall called westbound. And, um, it's amazing by the way, this sounds a Dimmick honestly, although, you know, it looks a bit like Donald prison, but I mean, it's, it got thrust into this from a, you know, um, I guess, you know, uh, comprehensive, uh, into this Rooney new environment, surrounded by, I guess, uh, fellow pupils that came from outside say slightly more affluent backgrounds.
Speaker 2 00:33:36 My mother, you know, I was single parent mom. She was working in it. She wouldn't have been earning a fortune, but luckily we got a bursary to go to the school, but anyway, thrust into this great environment of, uh, that had real structure and real, really lived their values. So, you know, it was a very sporting school. Um, I went to, I was there and Jonathan Edwards was, was there, uh, Steve Jomo and Victor reboot who are both ex uh, England and bath plays. So it was a real sort of golden sport. Yeah. And, um, and you know, they've reputedly got the reputedly, got the, um, the longest cross-country run in, in the UK, which is, uh, it was quite torturous actually. So you walk the X eczema, which is the final run for the sr was you walked eight miles out to the star and then you ran 10 miles back across X more as you can it's right.
Speaker 2 00:34:30 But it was all that experience. And the people that I was rubbing shoulders with that I think for me forged where I went, then, you know, it really was about, okay, well, what is my, what is my direction in life? And that, that kind of drove me into, I guess, joining the army. A lot of my peers, uh, went the Sandhurst route. And, but I, I knew I wanted a different journey, uh, and that the core I wanted to join, I couldn't do it that way. So I chose a different route, but I joined an organization that in many ways shared the same sort of values self-discipline, you know, really, I guess, designing your future, which, which the army allows you to do, allows you to go have a go, uh, whatever you want to be honest. So I think that was the kind of bedrock of where my sort of purpose and values, uh, happened.
Speaker 2 00:35:23 And then I guess through my army career, um, you know, they just get more and more formed sort of chisel the way. Um, and in many ways, I mean, this isn't meant to be a negative, uh, going back to your point of that, that was fundamental or having those kind of pillars of my purpose, which are really simple. I, I, you know, I sort of have three pillars. One is family, uh, self fulfillment, and then legacy. Now I keep it simple, but there's obviously a lot more complexity to that. I can unpack those, you know, to mean lots of different things and bringing in. But I came to the point where I just felt that the career I was on didn't fit, fit with those pillars, I guess. And didn't tick those boxes. Yeah. Uh, certainly with family and self fulfillment. And so I chose to leave. And, and so I think you're absolutely right when you come to those kind of critical decisions and the reason you know that as well, I think is that you can just feel the friction as well. I think you can feel the friction in your personal life. This just doesn't feel right. Don't feel this, this is still the right path for me. I want to go and do something else. So
Speaker 3 00:36:36 I think it's really important now, I think you get to a point in your life where you recognize and identify the friction and you think, well, actually, that's, that's a sign now. And I guess if you could get to that place, that, that place of awareness before having to experience our friction, then, then great. But I think sometimes, and my own personal experiences, you have to engage in that friction to understand what it is. What's driving that to go to the root cause. And you know, and so we're back, we're coming full circle back to your point early on in this episode about really kind of going, yeah, fundamentally, what is that? The foundation that purpose, those values and everything else like there. So we're coming to the sort of the end of the episode. Now, I always like to leave the listener with a sense of some of the things they might do if we assume that the, the one listener that's that's tuning in right now has perhaps never really engaged in thinking about purpose and values, what, what kind of ideas can we leave them with that perhaps having listened to us could start to make a difference for them in this area that we're talking about.
Speaker 2 00:37:38 Yeah. And clearly I was thinking about this, so last 24 hours, and I think going back to what a point we've discussed already, you know, I've, I've heard people sort of dismiss purpose, and so you can't really define purpose, you know, I think you can. And, and, and I think it's helpful too. And I, uh, going back to our point that I think you need to take the time to do that. And, um, you know, and, and that can be formulated over days, weeks, months, but just making notes and saying, you know, who am I, what, what is really my purpose for me? You know, fundamentally it's about family. It's about looking after my family and then everything else emanates from that. So it can be very personal and, uh, and it can be, you know, a lot wider in terms of your career. So I think firstly definitely spending some time and getting out into nature, you know, is a great way of doing it and not rushing the process either.
Speaker 2 00:38:34 And even engaging with family, friends, et cetera, that you can trust to, to have a conversation around this. Cause I think for some people it's a bit woo, you know, without there. Um, I think secondly, it's, um, then kind of then transposing that and saying like, what is, what I'm currently doing, does that really make me happy? And does that align back to that work that I've done and, and you see, you see evidence of this all over the place, people changing jobs, you know, going off site in their own businesses, et cetera. And, and I think if there's a resounding yes, then fantastic. That's great a thing if there's some real, some real doubt around that. And no, then okay. Then how the third point is, how do I use that kind of framework that I've built to then design the life that I want, you know, and what are the stepping stones to get to where I want to be. So I think just using 'em and bringing that sort of purpose, but also the values as well. And there was, um, just to give you an example. So when I left the military, there was a great book. It's a book on, um, on finding a job effectively, what colors?
Speaker 3 00:39:48 Oh, shoot. Yeah. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2 00:39:50 Very good. And, uh, I think it's chapter seven or somewhere and it gets you, it gets you to do this kind of, I think they describe as the flower, I don't know your central philosophy and then everywhere, where do you want to work? Who do you want to work with? And it was a really good, uh, kind of logical process to go through to really identify actually, this is me where I want to be when I work. And I think that kind of same principle, uh, can, can apply to, you know, using your purpose and your values in terms of, you know, designing your own life. So, yeah, I think for me that those three, three elements, uh, would be my sort of giveaway take away.
Speaker 3 00:40:29 No, that's brilliant. I mean, it speaks so much to what this podcast is all about is, is, uh, taking control, um, of where your life goes. And the day by day, moment by moment decisions and, and having the awareness. And I think books, like what color is my parachute and all those other things are help you sort of get started with that. Because I think the one thing that we can be sure of is that your behaviors and your life will be driven by values and will be driven by some kind of purpose it's whether you're conscious of that or not. And if you're not conscious, you've got no way of really determining, well actually, am I heading in the right direction? I'm heading in a direction, but it's probably going to be at the, the women behest of life and other people's plans. I think so much of what we're speaking to here is, is starting with yourself.
Speaker 3 00:41:16 And there, if we all worked on ourselves, then actually we would have flourishing organizations. We would have all the successes that we want. And I think sometimes we just go about it from the outside in, we're actually asked to be from the inside out. And, you know, for those of us that are listening to this, this episode, you know, you and I come from pretty harsh sort of backgrounds in terms of the organization and there's nothing light and fluffy about uni. Um, so, but to your point, a lot of people think that it is, I think it's a bit out there, or it's a bit, you know, a bit too Californian or whatever, but, but this is really, really serious stuff. And you know, the stuff we touched on that we could, I mean, we've hit the 40 minute Mark now, so I'm going to, we're going to bring it in, but we could literally talk about this all day long, which I think is just Testament to why we kind of connected in the first place is there's this real sort of resonance there, and we've barely scratched the surface on some of the stuff.
Speaker 3 00:42:09 So I want to, well, I'm so glad that you chose this podcast as your first. Um, it's been an absolute pleasure speaking with you. Um, I know we're in lockdown at the moment. Um, but when all this kind of emerged the other side, which we will do now, I really look forward to meeting with you, um, and having a drink and carry on the conversation. And we'll have you back on for an episode, 50 odd down the line. How about that? I look forward to that. Yeah. And thanks very much for having me on Peter. It's been, it's been a real pleasure actually in my first one. So a baptism of fire experience. So yeah. Thanks for reaching out. Thanks very much. And, uh, I see you see me,
Speaker 1 00:42:51 <inaudible>
Speaker 3 00:42:58 You that episode of what a lovely chap Al Humes is, and considering we've only just met online, I think it speaks to the power of connection in these turbulent times where we can only connect online, but also speaks to the fact that when you're aligned with your purpose, your values, your mission, you know, conversation flows. So I really enjoyed that one. I hope you did too, around exploring purpose and values. And remember it's something which I think is foundational to great leadership, entrepreneurship, being a great partner, feeding work on your personal life. So it's well worth going to work on your purpose and your values. And if we all did that, as we said in the latter half, there we'd have much better organizations and much better communication, and we can affect some really positive change. So if you'd like to continue the conversation conversations happening right now, over on LinkedIn, go find me if we've not connected to search for Peter Lewis or Peter M J Lewis, you'll find me there, feel free to drop any comments, send me a message. And also some ideas as to the subjects that you would like to be covered on future episodes on the, give yourself the chat podcast, but for now stay healthy, enjoy yourself, and I'll see you on the next one.
Speaker 1 00:44:12 <inaudible>.
