Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hello, and welcome to the, give yourself the chat podcast. I'm your host, Peter Lewis. And this show is all about leadership, coaching and living a life of high performance. Hello, everyone. Welcome to give yourself the chat podcast. We've got another episode for you today and I've got my dear friend and colleague Annabel. Charma with me Annabel. Good afternoon. How are you?
Speaker 1 00:00:23 Hello? I'm very well, thank you. Nice to see you. How are you?
Speaker 0 00:00:27 I'm I'm good. I'm good. So, Barry, I said is coronavirus still, you know, so even if the listener is listening to this in a couple of months, time, let's hope we're out of lockdown, but no, we're still firmly in lockdown, but we're in good health. How about yourself?
Speaker 1 00:00:38 Yeah, so I'm very well. I'm getting used to the whole working from home on week four now. So
Speaker 0 00:00:44 Yeah, and it seems like a long time ago, all this started and yet there were still getting used to it. And I know we'll, we'll chat about that this afternoon, um, for the benefit of the one listener. Hello mum. Um, we met, I don't know how many years ago is now, but it was, it was a leadership development program that, uh, you came through and, um, I'm happy to say that you've, you've done really well in your corporate life, despite the training that you do with me. So, um, and, and I know we got a few things in common, like a love of running. Um, I, I think your love of running perhaps goes a little bit more extreme than mine. Um, but why don't give us an idea of kind of, what brings you to, to where you are now in your professional life and perhaps some of those interests I've just mentioned.
Speaker 1 00:01:32 Sure. So, um, my, my background has always been in banking, I suppose. So I, um, I'll start from, I guess when I was, um, I finished my a levels. I was going to weed law at university, but decided to get a job in sex. I would some practical experience. I had no idea what I wanted to do. My brother was in banking, so I thought that seemed like a good idea. So, um, I got a job. That's a clearing banks, it's noise at the time. And, um, then I carried on at Lloyd's for quite a few years. I had a brief stint working in nuclear power station when I got a bit disillusioned with banking. And, um, so I was in procurement and nuclear pass station, and then I moved to London and went straight back into banking, rarely, but in, um, property banking say, um, and I worked for a competitor close brothers where I am now. Um, I'm close to ask me to join Ben, and that was all nine years ago now. So yeah, quite some time.
Speaker 0 00:02:49 So you are now, let me get us, your chief operating officer for the division. Is that right?
Speaker 1 00:02:54 That's correct. Yes.
Speaker 0 00:02:56 Well, I've got, I've got an idea of what our chief operating officer does, but it's probably a wholly incorrect. So why don't you, what what's, what's in your day job? If that's a simple question or not,
Speaker 1 00:03:07 To be honest, it's pretty varied. To be honest, it's a mixture of my responsibilities, our systems, um, people, um, the key operations of the bank. So, um, making sure that everything runs measly, but the customer services is good that our staff are well looked after, but our systems are stable. So all of those things are wrapped around your operations role. So every day is different, which is one of the things I love about that.
Speaker 0 00:03:35 Well, I'm glad you said that. Cause I was going to ask you what, what attracts, so you started off thinking you're going to be in law, you dabbled a bit with the nuclear industry and then you go back to banking. So is there a common denominator amongst any of those things or are you just, you just love working in finance? I mean, it's, I guess it's each to their own, but what, what's your kind of, kind of motivation around that?
Speaker 1 00:03:57 I suppose the Brighty is what really appeals to me when I first started in banking, I'm seeing the client facing side. So I look after clients. I really enjoy that. Um, I love speaking to people, meeting new people, but I think it was helping people that really is a driver for me. And now I'm still helping people, but, and solving problems, but in a back office role. Um, so it's that problem solving, I think, which really drives me and is one of the attractions of this role. Cause you're solving problems all the time. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:04:33 Now, uh, so that's, that's interesting. So, um, the last four weeks has presented quite a problem to solve. Um, you talk about people, you talk about coordination of systems and operations and everything else like this. I mean, four weeks ago, was your world just blown apart or have you just pivoted and just think, okay, well principles still apply. I just now need to operate via different mediums via video and more phone and think kind of talk us through that. I mean, did it kind of blow everything apart for you or have you kind of dealt with it in your stride? You'd say,
Speaker 1 00:05:03 Well, for the property team, it was quite a change because, and we're not particularly tech savvy, our industry is inside there. So, um, not many people had the class use work from home more or knew how to use tools such as WebEx or zoom or whatever it may be. So it's been quite a steep learning curve for us. Um, but to be fairly, you know, we took it in our stride in a relatively short period of time and we're talking kind of days, we had the whole division up and running, working from home. I mean, that was with the support of the wider bank and the it, and, um, you know, it's been, it's been pretty smooth to transition since then. It was a real challenge. And as you say, lots of different problems to solve, um, I think one of the key things to me though, is helping the staff and the culture transition, um, cause it's all well and good giving people the technologies to work from home, but really trying to help them with the isolation piece and stay connected to each other. And business has been one of the biggest challenges and that's been one of my main areas of faith and spirit.
Speaker 0 00:06:18 So again, it speaks to that, that people aspect that you found attractive with the role, but now it's, it's very much as I think it could be so easily overlooked. Is that okay, you're working from home now and you've got your computer, you've got your connectivity, let's crack on, but you know, you, you would have found as I have with some micro clients, it can be, I would say it could be isolating. It could be dislocating you lonely. Um, there's so many variables and the people aspect I think is, is really key, isn't it?
Speaker 1 00:06:45 It is. And I mean, even for me and my own direct team, we've had to kind of find different ways to keep in touch each other. Um, and actually I've really learned some, some things in the last four weeks. Um, I mean I had one to ones, for example, with my team, but because they were kind of ad hoc because I, I saw them in the office and, but we've actually, no shed took those in and I have, um, you know, once, one time with each of them, but it's not just a conversation about work and some conversation about how they are, how they found these are what's going on for them outside of work because, um, you know, we all have different challenges and work is only one part of that. And all of those challenges that home life work kind of collided mag, and we find a way to make that work together. So having those one to one calls I think are really important. Um,
Speaker 0 00:07:46 Yeah, that's going to say it becomes whatever you were doing that was working in the offline world, in their sort of, you've just really got to double down on haven't you. So if you were having one to ones once every couple of weeks or so, and now it's probably twice or three times a week just to make sure you've got those regular touch points, I guess.
Speaker 1 00:08:05 Yeah, absolutely. But also having downtime together. So having, um, like a quiz at the end of this week, um, we had a game of heads up, um, I have a WebEx, a big payoff set, but it was actually really good fun. And, um, we were able to kind of, to just share a bit of downtime together and, and again, just have a bit of a laugh and see the license side of it because with all the news, all the terrible stories you hear, um, there's a lot of negativity and that can weigh on people's minds a lot. So trying to give them some relief from that is, is really important. I think
Speaker 0 00:08:47 Sibley, I mean, you talked to him, we talked off air didn't we about how, uh, how challenging it is for anyone ordinarily to get used to this. But if you've got working from home and you've got young children at home who just see mum and dad at home and they're tugging at your ankles, come and play outside in the nice sun, a lot of people are having to do, you know, it pushes the work almost to the end of what would be a normal working day. And then they've got to do so their energy levels and everything. So I think it's really important that you say to have that release, but also to legitimize the fact that this is not as easy and straightforward as you might realize, this is not you're working from home in your pajamas. How easy is that? It's really tough.
Speaker 0 00:09:22 It's really tough. So what did you, um, cause I know we wanted to explore, I mean with every episode guests I asked, what kind of theme would you like to talk around and you very much sort of focused on sort of habits and discipline and you kind of let slip to me that you've created some habits and you've carried some habits over and also you kind of, you know, you weren't shy in saying that actually there's some positive here, but there's also some negative around set. So let's bring it to you personally. What have you found in terms of habits that you've perhaps developed or enhanced or, or had to really rethink?
Speaker 1 00:09:54 So, um, I've been reading, um, James James Clare's book, atomic habits. So that's kind of what made me focus on, on habits and things. And I was reflecting upon the last kind of three, three and a half weeks and thinking, well, what have I been doing in terms of have my habits changed? And, um, so it's neat because as you, as you suggested, um, I'm really a keen runner and, um, having few ultra marathons. And so
Speaker 0 00:10:26 Sorry, a few you've done loads of them.
Speaker 1 00:10:29 Um, I don't know how many actually,
Speaker 0 00:10:32 There you go.
Speaker 1 00:10:35 So being in lockdown to me, um, it's really important to keep that discipline and that habit of the exercise, but it's really important obviously to keep it hearing to the government guidelines. So, um, I have it, so I've, I've definitely maintained is the daily exercise and I think that's become even more of a habit that I've drawn up a bit of a spreadsheet for myself, which I have beside me here, which is a bit sad.
Speaker 0 00:11:06 Okay. So what is that, is that the plan or is that just recording? What you've done?
Speaker 1 00:11:10 This is, this is actually a circuits, um, of many circuits pan I've drawn up and I know it's a bit old school to have it on a piece of paper, but what I do is I kind of tick it off each day when I do it, I didn't make it accountable. And I find that that kind of visual prompt is, is really beneficial. And, um, the other thing I do is one of the things that have the bad habits I have when I'm in your face and it's carried over into work life here is I find it hard to draw a line at the end of the day to finish work. Um, so what I've tried to do is have a hard stop. So an alarm on my phone at six o'clock and no matter what I'm working on, I'm stop and take my day exercise then.
Speaker 1 00:12:07 Okay. So whilst I'm either running or walking I'll, if I've got work, which I'm in the middle of, I'll take that time and think, is it really that important then it can't wait until tomorrow. And most of the time, by the time I've got back from that walk or run, it's helped me to put things into perspective and actually I'll leave it til tomorrow. And if it's that important, then yes, I'll go back and quickly finish it. But it's making sure that I have that kind of hard stuff at the end of the day. Um,
Speaker 0 00:12:39 And that kind of discipline around the hard stop is something that this lockdown has brought about. Or were you doing that previously?
Speaker 1 00:12:48 No, I was really struggling to do that in the affair. Um, I guess the only hard stop that was kind of enforced was train times. Yeah. My hour, my commute is narrowing three each way. So, um, if I, if I missed a train, it would mean that, you know, it would add three calls for an hour, an hour on my journey in the evenings. So that kind of, um, was the only hard stop that I had. But of course, when you're working from home that there isn't anything like that.
Speaker 0 00:13:21 No, no, the danger is it's so accessible. You can walk past your computer and just have a look. And so it actually takes more mental discipline to, to do that when you're working from home than it would, perhaps in the office with those other hard stops, you've got well, that's encouraging and that's something that you want to continue again.
Speaker 1 00:13:38 Definitely. I think it's been really useful for me and also, um, building that in with the daily exercise, um, again is, is where the importance may because of my running and to keep my fitness up. Um, so yeah, it's working really well for me. Um, I think, I think, um, some of the other things, um, I know one of the things that I think you've mentioned before is meditation. Yes. And I've never been really that keen on, on meditation, but, um, one of the things I have introduced as a new habit is I'm quite lucky because we have a garden, I can hear the birds and I find that kind of quite relaxing and a good form of almost meditation. So for 10 minutes each day, I will try to dedicate that time to thinking or reflecting and I can hear the birds kind of singing in the background. And for me, that's, that's a really kind of good space to be in, even if it's just for a short period of time.
Speaker 0 00:14:55 That's really interesting. So is that morning bird song or just any time of the day, just go out and listen.
Speaker 1 00:15:00 Any, any time really? I mean, I can, I can even hear the nice, so I think it's really relaxing. Um, and whilst obviously I won't be able to play birds, so I'll be in the office potentially. I could, if I put in my headphones,
Speaker 0 00:15:17 You could, but I think what this speaks to, um, so you're right. I have a morning routine where I do my meditation and crikey, it's hard. I mean, meditation is such an easy thing to describe this possibly the hardest thing to master, but I think in trying to master it, you're, you're getting more mindful anyway in that process. So I'm all for that. I I've actually been advising and working with my clients to say, what are you doing? And this speaks to your idea here to sort of transition from one meeting to the next and this idea of releasing that last meeting, getting clarity of your mind before going to the next meeting. And I think what you've just described there, that popping out into the garden, if you've got there, or even if it's just a stick, your head out the window or just do something else, I think it's really important that we get the habit of transitioning between these things. And that's a habit that you can carry on through any part of your life. So I think this idea, I think it's, it's almost like how do you make meditation accessible and useful in the day? And I think if you can trigger it between those meetings or events, I think that's a really useful approach to meditation.
Speaker 1 00:16:20 Yeah, definitely. Um, I think it's the thinking about nothing and clearing my mind, which I find the hardest thing today.
Speaker 0 00:16:28 Well, I was having this conversation and it's like, it's not about stopping stuff coming into your mind. It's not following that thought as it comes into your mind. So hard, so hard to do, but again, you've got to honor the struggle and the process, which is great. So that's good. Um, so I'm guessing then as a, as a mad keen runner and ultra runner, you've had some events canceled this season, if it's something like my triathlon season, it's, I think I've got one event left in September. And even that I think is doubtful. So, you know, with give yourself the chat, this idea of how do you kind of manage the, those thoughts, the, the pressures and these things that life throws up, how have you managed and that potentially disappointment or whatever, the frustration around events now being taken away and still maintaining focus, compositions, what do you do to kind of stay on top of that?
Speaker 1 00:17:27 Um, it's interesting because I, I had lots of events planned as well, and I've missed quite a few of them already. And I had a real, um, kind of series of events planned for the rest of the year, all of which were going to be impacted. And, um, you know, running's really important to me. It's part of who I am. And, um, it's important, not just from a physical perspective, but from a mental wellbeing perspective. Um, and I must admit though, I've been less concerned that the events being canceled than I thought I would be interesting. Um, and I had booked them. I was seriously training for them, but in the context of what's going on at the moment in the rest of the world, I'm healthy, I'm safe. My family are too. So I can't really justify being too upset about events being canceled.
Speaker 1 00:18:34 I've kind of put it into perspective in my own mind. Um, having said that, you know, that the fitness is really important to me. So building in those habits that still give me that kind of mental and physical wellbeing, um, whilst I'm at home, um, has been critical to, you know, making sure that I've got that, um, those goals to enforcing the feature of me. I've got a massive event in I'm really a big challenge for me in September. If it goes ahead, I need to still make sure I maintain my fitness stuff until then. So, um, I still have those goals in mind, but are they really that important? There'll be that. And then a year,
Speaker 0 00:19:20 Well, that's interesting. And I think that's a very positive reframing and I think actually moments like that, the situation that we're in, it's possibly easier to accept the fate of the disappointment or, you know, because, you know, in the scheme of things, you know, there's, people are dying. This is really serious stuff. And actually going for a run, no matter if it's, you know, whatever it might be or triathlon is it's just play. It's something that we are able to use our discretionary time for and predominate energies into. And it's great, but in the scheme of things, it doesn't matter, but not every time, not, we're not, these are unprecedented times, so it's possibly easier to reframe that. So, but how do you, how do you perhaps give us a clue as to how do you manage those moments, perhaps when you're in a race and all you want to do is stop, take the easy way out.
Speaker 0 00:20:09 You know, I mean this whole, give yourself the chat thing I talk about in my first episode and you know, the story, how I, you know, I was on an iron man and run and all I wanted to do was stop and I felt really sorry for herself. And it was just that voice inside that said, well, this hurts now, but it's going to hurt forever if you don't complete this. I mean, how does that relate to how you handle perhaps the, in the moment pieces where it's not quite as stark as well, people are dying, therefore get a grippier. South Anabel is more sort of nuanced.
Speaker 1 00:20:39 So I've had plenty of times in events where I've wanted to give up. And actually sometimes not very good reasons just because I've been fed up and I just want, don't want to continue. Sometimes I've been in pain and, um, you know, magically it's been the right thing to do to stop, but, um, I've had plenty of those moments where I've had to give myself a chat. Um, and I've had a bit of a tantrum and kind of cried or shouted written maybe. Um, the real drivers may is probably what other people will think if I don't finish. So, um, and that probably says something about me. Um, but I really, my, the perception of other people's perception of me and what they think of me is really important. And I think because running so much my identity, um, whenever I reach a difficult place in a race, um, it's a really good motivated to think while you're doing this for yourself, um, that should be your main motivation.
Speaker 1 00:22:00 I know actually real motivation is what others will think. So it's almost that peer pressure, even though it's a false pressure because you know, none of my friends when my colleagues would think anything less of me, if I didn't complete two A's, in fact, most of them are so bored of hearing about my race, but they probably don't even know I'm doing half of them. So, um, but in my mind, it's important. So that's what keeps me going. Um, and I guess it's your point about if I don't finish, how much worse am I going to fail the next day?
Speaker 0 00:22:37 I think there is, there is something, I mean, it's a, it's intrinsic in that fact that you get yourself going and you get server, but actually a lot of it is extrinsic. I mean, for you, it's a, it's perhaps what you think, the perception of other people. Um, for me, it's like a sort of future pace. It's my future self and what I might think. I think that, I think this give yourself a chance always as a lot of the time, it's tethered to something beyond ourselves and whatever that might be. And, um, and it's, it's fairly personal for us all, you know, but, but I think there's, there's some common denominator there, but I'd like to explore, how does that sh that drive or that sense of self show up in your professional life? Because as I said at the start of this episode, you've done really well, despite working with me on a leadership program. So, you know, and to, to, to any sort of external criteria, you are a senior successful female executive doing really well and on a really good trajectory, how much of what is in your running life crosses over to the motivation to do well in business, in your professional life? Would you,
Speaker 1 00:23:48 I surprise I'm very self critical. And so once that sounds like a negative, I actually do see it as a positive, in some respects because I set really high standards for myself, both from a running perspective and also from a business perspective. And, um, I'm, that means I'm always striving for more. Um, so I always wants to take on more things. I always want more challenges. Um, and so whilst at times I do really beat myself up probably unnecessarily about things. It just means that I'm always aiming for really, you know, high standards, high targets. Um, and I think that's one of the things that's really helped me both from a professional and, um, and personal perspective. Um, and you know, you were very kind to say that, you know, I'm a seniors executive and very successful. I don't really necessarily see myself in that way. Um, and I almost feel a bit embarrassed and cringing a bit. So I guess it's that imposter syndrome still a little bit
Speaker 0 00:25:06 Interesting. So, um, but I wonder if that's linked to the nature of who you are and, and always wanting to drive to be better. And that by virtue means that you, you get on, I, I wonder how much of that. I mean, the imposter syndrome is that a really interesting phenomenon? How does that show up for you? Because it's the one thing I know about imposter syndrome and I talked to people about it from the outside. You're like, what are you talking about? You're so good at what you're doing. And yet the more able and capable it appears people are the more they seem to feel this imposter syndrome, what what's going on there. Do you think?
Speaker 1 00:25:42 Um, I, I suppose it's, it's a difficult one to, to explain, I think in, in every role that's, I've been lucky enough or fortunate enough to be given the opportunity to take on. Um, I've always thought, you know, I'm just not capable of doing this. I, I, I still think that now, and I've been in my existing role and, and for what four or five years now. And, um, and it presents itself in so many different ways. I often go into meetings with, you know, other senior people and think, Oh, I'm just going to say something ridiculous hair. So I need to keep my thoughts to myself. I don't feel comfortable saying out loud, just in case they kind of suddenly find me out and think, how is she possibly been doing this role? Um, and of course I still have a of, I'm kind of surprised when I get good feedback and positive feedback. Um, and I still have that feeling that I'm going to be found out.
Speaker 0 00:26:58 Well, it's interesting. I take a lot of groups through this, especially my leadership programs. We talk about imposter syndrome and I asked the question who here, you know, it might be a class of 20 who here feels they suffer from imposter syndrome and everyone's handled up. And now it's the say, look around the room you're full of imposters. And I don't think what it is, those of us that are, are driven to, to, to want to hit whatever goal it might be. And it might be a running goal. It might be a business goal. It could be any kind. Um, I, I think there's that acceptance that there's always something better that you could be doing. And actually the, the, the, the more senior people I tend to work with, I think it's just Testament to the fact that they accept that. Okay, they're doing okay, but there's so much more I could learn.
Speaker 0 00:27:42 And I think that's, I think that's a positive, I think it's linked to growth mindset. I think it's linked to people that actually always appreciate. There's always something else that I can go for. There's always, I can always do better, but I think it becomes a negative when you, it limits you. So I think you have to act in spite of that fear in spite of the imposter syndrome. I think if it paradises, you that's a bad thing, but I, I tend to reframe it as quite a positive thing. And it's, it's, you know, look around the room. Everyone feels this way. And I think once you accept that you can kind of lighten up a little bit.
Speaker 1 00:28:14 Yeah, I think that is that's true. Um, and, and it's been helpful, I think to have, um, mentors in really senior roles, more senior roles than Ironman to, to really kind of share that with me and say to me, you know, and that's how I feel. You probably don't, you don't realize it, but I filled up the same way. And to have that honest conversation with them and hear them say that really means a lot. Um, so I find that kind of mentor relationship really helpful to me.
Speaker 0 00:28:47 Well, that's interesting. So I think this links back to what you were saying previously about contact with your team and how it's really important to, to have that, that human element that, that sort of softer side of leadership to create safety. And, uh, and, and, and I think what you're experiencing with your mentors is no different to what you're trying with your, your, your team now. So I think I'd like to just explore as we sort of approach the end of our chat, and I could talk forever with Dan about what kind of things for executives or business owners, or any leaders sort of listening in about managing their teams remotely, or things that you've learned around leadership. What kind of things would you touch? Leave us with some, some things we could try or just to bear in mind from either this experience of lockdown or perhaps sister, the wider context. Um,
Speaker 1 00:29:42 I think one of the most important things that I will take away from the last four weeks is, uh, those one-to-one conversations and more importantly, not just to focus all of them on work, and of course you don't want to intrude into people's, um, you know, personal lives, but actually just to ask a bit more about how they're doing on a personal basis, um, and taking that time to listen has been really valuable and really important. And I think it's brought us close together as a team. Um, it's not something that I'll definitely take away, um, even when we're back in the office. Yeah. Um, so I think that's really important. Um, and the work life balance, I think this is really made me reflect upon that this time at home. Um, as I said, I've, I've got a lot of new positive habits, which I really want to carry forward and, and maintain, even when we're all back to normal or whatever that's gonna look like. Um, and making sure that I maintain those habits. So I've got some good tips from, from the books I've been reading. So hopefully I'll be able to, to keep those up and feature
Speaker 0 00:31:09 What's. Um, what kind of are you left with? So I've read atomic habits as well. And, and I must admit my first, when I read the cover, I thought atomic habits, this is about making big, big differences, but it's atomic in terms of small, isn't it, it's, it's the smallest component and, and the advocates, um, what can you start on a really small level that you can then build incrementally? So, um, yeah, I mean, so if, if whoever's listening in here, um, go grab yourself a copy of atomic habits, really good read, but what's kind of stuck with you so far, and yet you're kind of, as you explore that topic.
Speaker 1 00:31:46 So one of the things I have started to use, um, and it's around the paperclip strategy, but it's kind of a combination of that and, um, the <inaudible> strategy. So it's a bit silly. So bear with me. So, um, at the end of each day, I'm making a list of six things that I have to do in the next day and prioritizing them. Um, so star speech there, I've got six important things I do, but as a visual aid, instead of having paper clips, so jar of paper clips, and another jar of an emergency jar, I'm moving one paper clip across to the other where every time I do something, I'm actually using three max.
Speaker 0 00:32:36 Oh, okay. So bit of self discipline involved here, or do you eat the cream milk? No.
Speaker 1 00:32:41 No. Wow. Wow. If I complete my six tasks, I, the font across to the jar when I've, when I've completed each task. And if I'm on stool sex, I'm eating one of the cream eggs, but if I don't, then the tasks are carried forward to the next day and I don't get to eat any decree mags.
Speaker 0 00:33:04 Well, so one that I love how you've kind of repurposed this paperclip exercise, and there's a visual cue there, but massive self-restraint as well involves using several habits here. Aren't you? So, and also, I guess if you eat the creed, Meg, you've definitely got to go for your run or do your exercise
Speaker 1 00:33:21 Is that clay? So it's a win, win. I get the rewards and the motivation.
Speaker 0 00:33:26 Yeah. I love that. I love that. And I think that's the thing with, with habits and disciplines and just to kind of bring this to a close is that I think if, I think people often think that they take off big chunk and they get disillusioned too soon, but like a, like a meditation habit, like a morning routine habit, whatever. I think you just got to find those elements that you can start with small consistent, and you'll be amazed at how quickly, even over this four week period, you can build something which you can then carry forward into your life, which, you know, I think, I think a lot of people miss that point about how habits are formed, really, because whatever behavior you're doing right now is a consequence of habits you've formed. You've gotta be quite deliberate about it. Five minutes. Well, so I look forward to hearing how many cream eggs you consumed over this lockdown period. And it's been amazing having you on, I'd love to have you on again, as a guest, further down the road. And perhaps we can explore in more detail that the running aspect, and perhaps we can talk about some of the big events if they're still on, but for the time being, it's been absolute pleasure chatting to you. And thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 1 00:34:30 Thank you for your time. It's been, it's been really fun. So thank you. Thank you very much. <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:34:39 Really enjoyed that chat with Annabel that, uh, it's, she's got so many amazing stories to tell. I don't think we even scratched the surface there. So we'll certainly have Annabel back on at a later date for the time being though the conversations going on over at LinkedIn. So please come and connect with me, uh, joined the chats, suggest which guests you might like to hear on future episodes. And indeed what subjects you'd like me to cover, but for the time being a Garth yourself, I see you on the next one.
