Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hello, and welcome to the, give yourself the chat podcast. I'm your host, Peter Lewis. And this show is all about leadership, coaching and living a life of high performance. Hello, welcome to the, give yourself the chat podcast. Uh, another episode, um, I've I've got a chap called Dan cook with me. Um, so good morning, Dan, how are you? I think you on a canal boat there side. Hey pink. Yes, I am.
Speaker 1 00:00:25 Uh, I'm a Cal can elbow in, in all sorts of countryside right now. In fact, it's going to be April while we're not going anywhere at the moment.
Speaker 0 00:00:33 So, um, those that are listening, we asked that in, I think it's a week four of lockdown. The government just announced another three weeks of lock down with coronavirus and, uh, yeah, interesting times, but you say it's the right place to be. And you've got an impressive set of badges, those that are watching on YouTube and see all of the badges behind, um, Sudan. I know a little bit about you because, um, we've just had a little bit of a chat, but we are meeting pretty much for the first time. So we wonderful technology and how LinkedIn in particular brings people together. I know a little bit about your background, sort of international search and rescue, uh, fire and rescue officer ex school teacher for a brief period and all that kind of stuff. But, um, we'll, we'll kind of dig into your backstory a little bit now, but what do you want to right now? And in particular, what's kind of keeping you busy.
Speaker 1 00:01:21 Oh my goodness. Uh, well being locked down, genuinely taking it seriously and being responsible about it. I'm pretty lucky that I can do some exercise in their hair, you know, in the middle of nowhere. Uh, however, um, very, very long days with my organization, uh, using the computer and like bone, uh, sort of helping coordinate and lead five different counties if you like for us, our response, um, and trying to balance it to be doing the right thing. Uh, we are normally pretty forward facing people. So sitting here as a, as a remote solo headquarters, I guess, on the boards.
Speaker 0 00:01:57 Well, yeah, on a bone. So you're my first podcast guest, um, from a boat. So that's a first for give yourself the cat. Um, but yeah, so, so, so ordinarily, I mean, I know pre locked down, you were just kind of flew back from the Caribbean with some of the, um, the work you're doing out there. So we were just talking before we sort of came on air about how sometimes it's really difficult just to sort of sit on your hands or do the right thing, which is not do anything in this. You know, if we're in this sort of service industry or volunteering, we want to kind of rush to help, but sometimes that's not the best response. Isn't
Speaker 1 00:02:30 Yeah. It's a really tough one where we're all designed in, in my organization and myself to go. I mean, we'll fly anywhere in the world in about six hours. Uh, and, and with scant information, you know, up into the inflammation to justify it, I would say. Um, and that doesn't mean we don't consider things. I know this one, we have a good look and, you know, straight away with saying, first thing, stop moving around, get isolated. You're not, you're not special human touch this stuff. You can spread it and make things worse. So we won't make these also, um, a lot of our staff off at nine and HS and emergency services. So they're already doing that. Um, and so we wanted to repeat what it was and say, how can we make the best benefit, um, without making things worse. And we are doing we're, we're, we're, we're in a variety of tasks, uh, but we are also, um, constantly reminding ourselves about being patient.
Speaker 1 00:03:22 This is a long job don't, you know, burn out if you'd like to be the tortoise in the race, um, and, and get to the end, uh, you know, we've got a real simple set of objectives and we stick them up every day and remind ourselves what our decisions are and, and what have you. So, but it is a tough time because, uh, I, I won't lie. We're used to having that sense of, uh, uh, being part of something special, um, especially at the very sharp end. And so when you're really looking at it, you have to make sure that it isn't just your ego. Uh, and if it is, you can leave it stay where you are, stay in state, your boat, stay wherever you are. Uh, and, and wait, we did a lot of online training. We're doing, we're even restructuring ourselves whilst we get this amazing opportunity, but, but yeah, we will, we are also did to bring a lot of good, uh, just not a high speed in shouting about it.
Speaker 0 00:04:14 Well, yeah, but equally it's, it's understanding the situation and being mindful of what is needed and when, and at what point will kind of be able to kick in. And I think there's too many people that rush. We were talking about the, how wonderful it is. The, um, the sort of volunteer register for the NHS is, you know, very quickly getting up to it to a million or so. And a lot of them are now waiting for some to do something, but isn't it great that we haven't had to call upon you and, you know, I'm one of those volunteers. And I was saying to you, there's about 20 odd of us around just in this block alone where I live, but that's a good thing that we're not, you know,
Speaker 1 00:04:48 It's a, it's a really good thing. Putting your hand up to say, I'm here is, is part of it. And then the next bit is actually having the, the, the grownup mind that goes, actually, this is, this is pretty good. It was not about my adventure. It's not about me being in the front of something. It's about the outcome. Uh, and you know, the other one that's quite common as you hear people saying, well, I signed up, but I haven't really had anything to do for weeks. So I've started delivering food for people getting prescriptions, and you go, there you go, that's it. You're already doing it. It didn't need a branch or a hat or a thing. It turns out you're taking some of that work already well done. Why not? I would say this, some of the smaller communities that you brutally in a minute, cause they, uh, they seem to have that community that allows them to look at themselves. I think once you get into a massive city, it's pretty tough. And it was on top of each and hard, but some more smaller communities are just a massive example of how to almost like don't interfere too much of this it's working, which is great to see.
Speaker 0 00:05:54 Yeah, that's really good to see. So I kind touched on a little bit of your background, but clearly there's a lot of depth to it. So what kind of brought you to this sort of life of service and, and some, you know, it looked from the outside in would say quite an adventurous kind of lifestyle. And was that always something that drove you and kind of boy, if this point?
Speaker 1 00:06:18 Yeah. Do you know? I think I was brought up to be outside, uh, climb, uh, can water, wherever it was climb. Uh, and, and perhaps, do you do something away from the crowd quite often? I think, I think I was super shy child. Okay. I remember being really nervous and shy about people. Uh, my mother tells me I talked to anybody and wasn't scared of anything, but I can remember being, so I don't know how that works, but, uh, certainly having adventures. I remember my first rescue was, um, this question, my first rescue is some ducklings and I was about three or, and I can remember because we had to walk in a stream and blue Wellington's with a coat, uh, with, with someone to hurt them back from somewhere. And I can actually remember that. And I remember it being the most important thing in the world and I cut my leg into the car and it's super important.
Speaker 1 00:07:12 Now that's all these tiny little things that happened then you play. And I guess sport was a big part of my life. Um, I managed to get a scholarship. I had a mom that worked really hard to get me into a good school. I was, uh, I wouldn't say I was a bad student in terms of, uh, unpleasant, but I was, I was barely there. Um, I've spent as much time away from things as I could, uh, usually got caught Skyping because I would turn up to training for sports. Um, and, uh, and that's how I would, I would, I think I later, as I managed to wheedle my way into university, possibly on some good recommendations and be reasonable at sport, uh, I trained as a teacher and, um, and that's where I was probably quite dyslexic. Whereas, whereas I went to a school where I think there were 32 Oxbridge successful Oxbridge students in my year, um, which I wasn't, um, I think our daily daily managed to blag it at some point that the, uh, academia, I just never been great.
Speaker 1 00:08:14 And, um, I think if I don't have a real purpose or focus, it doesn't even open that bit to my brain when it does, you know, um, I was chasing things all over the place and, uh, I suppose another turning point about service was I was traveling in India, uh, after my, uh, GCSE is, I think we were the first year that did the, and um, well, the second year, I'm not sure anyway, went around India with some mates and, uh, and no grownups and had all sorts of experiences, including, you know, seeing some extremes of poverty, some cruelty violence, and, and actually came away from it with there's a right and a wrong hair. And there's a, maybe there's a, it matters to me. Maybe I should look to do that. Um, do you think is definitely maybe, um, and that's sort of that teenage years where you start to form some social conscience and you form your own, which I think is really healthy and was really good.
Speaker 1 00:09:07 So when top trainers as a teacher, um, spent a bit of that time actually, uh, around the military at the same time to help me through uni and a few of the bits and then came out the other side and, um, very randomly, very randomly I've been teaching on supply. Um, and I randomly joined the fire service because I was throwing a newspaper out and it had not, and it was, I think the internet existed by now to use it. And, um, this was one of those where you have to go to a job center script, a little bit of paper. And, um, Hey, anyway, I found out that handing in date was a Friday and it was already Wednesday night and I was throwing away a free paper. So I had to drive to a job center and devises and gets a piece of paper, have a book, fill it in on the front desk and headquarters in one go.
Speaker 1 00:09:54 Now my writing's terrible. My spelling is terrible. Um, and I knew how important it was cause I've done. Uh, yeah, but people can pass back a few things in them. And I say, so it's just such a big waste of time. I can't write properly. I should do this 10 times before I hand the end, because I remember thinking that's a strange all waste of time. And then for some reason I asked, I went very quickly through, um, ended up on training, still, not sure if I wanted to be a firefighter to the end. And then, and then, and then came out the other side of training, which was great fun. Um, just wanting to actually do the, do the real stuff. And I think there's a piece there about service that for me, I'm probably an activist pragmatist, not strong reflector, not a strong reflector.
Speaker 1 00:10:37 It's why I work so well with our cause he is, and he helps me. Um, and uh, you just wanted to get on to do things and see what it was about. Uh, whereas other people were concerned about their, their grades or their, um, uh, positioning in the course and all this stuff turns out because it mattered to me. I did really well there. And then, you know, I started in the fire service. I was super busy. I made six breeding operators rescues in my probation alone, which some people never do in a career. First tool was really busy. And I was working with a load of old guys who, um, Hey, my mom would say, Oh, go. They were, they'd all been in about 25 years, but one and I was this new kid and I had this wonderful experience when they grew up old Suboxone charge.
Speaker 1 00:11:19 My watch. She said, um, no, you're not, you're not going in the kitchen. Cause they usually put probation is, you know, you can imagine clean out thing, go into kitchen, all the crappy jobs. Yeah. He said, you're not doing any of that. You are. Um, and you're not watching football. I wouldn't anywhere like that would be, but you're not watching TV, not going in the kitchen you're studying. And if we're not on a shout, you study till midnight or nights and all day on, uh, on base. And then it's like, but actually it was brilliant. And I'll have someone assigned to me that really, really took care of my learning. I mean, it's hard on me, but, uh, it was, it was excellent. And you have these, these horrendous, um, especially the area I was, you have these horrendous assessments, which were at the time and the gift of the commander of that district.
Speaker 1 00:12:01 So we happen to have one. He made these Epic days that started before your shift would start and your shift had gone home and you were still working at nine on exams and they basically quit you and Chris, you and Chris, you can get to the end and you do scenario, scenario, scenario, exam, exam, exam, you name it. Uh, and I had, I had some really tough ones. Those and what tended to happen was people would try and get the questions, the exams and share them around. Uh, my boss made me swear not to do that, not to receive that. He said, it's dead easy, this dead easy. And those remember things miss, when it comes to operational things, if you learn everything, you can do everything, you'll know all the answers, don't worry about it. Um, and that was a simple brief for the, for the 18 months.
Speaker 1 00:12:44 Um, but kind of where Tony also take, you know, um, don't worry about what this bloke thinks. If you've got a scenario, you know how to do all this stuff, so solve the, solve the problem, let it take care of itself. And, and that probably sticks into the, to the, to the rest of the world that I've been. I mean, fire service was a wonderful, and he's a wonderful career, great people. Uh, I was fortunate enough to get, uh, to work in really good teams and I got promoted really fast. I think it was the quickest. Anyone's become an operational station officer at the time as a temporary assistant divisional officer, whatever it is now. And really that was all just on the back of events and being, you know, doing well and trying to solve the problems and work well with people. It's a people team job.
Speaker 1 00:13:29 And that's when I started to, uh, look at international rescue, uh, sadly there was nine 11, which, which prompted the fire service to let me go and do this because it was a skill set that would be needed if we had a seminar event. And so at the same time as that and a few other, uh, service related jobs on the side, I ended up working constantly to the point in which I had to pick or choose. And, um, I've been round the world on missions and, and decided that, uh, that I needed to concentrate what I wanted, which was that. Um, and so I left fire service after about 17 years. Um, and, and, and sort of went into this world, which, which is now not dissimilar to you in terms of human performance. Uh, I fell into that, but all of these things kind of came along by, I think, eight, eight to nine years ago, a chap called Matt Parker.
Speaker 1 00:14:21 Who's in UK sport. He's a bit of a legend on the marginal gains things. Uh, and, uh, he, uh, and chris.got me to come into the, um, uh, elite coaching program, UK sport, uh, to just to share my world cause they wanted to look outside sport outside the conventional. And we had a particular reputation for doing well on our missions, which are all, um, confusing and chaotic and, uh, finding some direction, purpose and success in there is, it was a great challenge to that a few times and worked with in the book in there and a few of the ready groups in sport and clean the military as well. Some groups there and was basically doing it. Cause I thought it was fascinating and I was learning from people and, um, and I was, had had nice job and it's all fine. And then they were saying, look, you know, part and donating this amount to your charity, you should really do this for a job.
Speaker 1 00:15:18 Uh, we, we spent a lot of money on people and get less. So we'd rather, and I'm like, no, but I quite like rescuing pay. So, and then as time goes by, you look at what you enjoy and you look at serving purpose and all the way through here. Yeah. There's been some danger injuries, deaths, trauma, everything you can associate with that type of work. Of course. Um, and I felt like actually I was learning about how to thrive in uncertainty. I wasn't conscious of it. And then you become more conscious as you grow up, don't need, you start to reflect and you go, it's like, yeah, I'm not a big reflect. It usually takes someone else to make me. And, uh, he started to say, actually, everyone else was struggling with that. And I wasn't mate, maybe like some people say it's that you've got a thin slicing brain because it links to dyslexia, but all sorts doesn't it.
Speaker 1 00:16:12 But whatever it is as a way of seeing a moment as an opportunity. Uh, and, and, and I guess we got tested in that time and time and time again. Um, and so I wanted to share that, explore that, and I really enjoy what what's possible, like, uh, optimism, so forward looking and happy. And so sharing that it's been really good, not like, I mean, my team, my team, I worked with it serve on, uh, uh, just incredible. And some of them are just highest caliber people from all kinds of backgrounds and very diverse thinking, diverse in many, many, many ways. And then they come together and, uh, and there's always someone who's got a solution there. And, um, so we, we've got this great mix. That's pretty flat, uh, high level, very high level of trust, uh, and, and consult problems. And, you know, I've definitely been in the midst of made rescues where people have said that camp can't be done, you know, um, and we've done it and a huge amount of lessons learned through that experience and lessons in blood. Cause, cause, cause honestly if it sounds adventurous and cool, um, I gotta be really careful cause it isn't
Speaker 2 00:17:23 Pretty horrible. Um, no, yeah, we shouldn't romanticize it too much. It's everywhere. I mean, you've got to find it,
Speaker 1 00:17:29 Your purpose, you got to keep getting up the next day to do things. So you have to be able to make it right. And um, and there's nothing wrong with humor, uh, in the midst of things. And, and, and that thing that keeps us going, and I know we've been asked by someone, uh, in the work we not long ago was, um, well, how the hell do you measure success? And actually as a reflective person, I might well measure. Uh, but, um, but I do, I've mentioned it actually in our own behaviors, we measure it in how we react and papers have group of humans helping other humans in, in very challenging circumstances. So you wouldn't count the numbers of besties. You wouldn't count the hours on the ground or the, the amount of whatever we sometimes have to do to prevent making good. So how many liters of water to be filled for pain?
Speaker 1 00:18:16 But you know, sometimes our job is to clear a massive area of a city that's fallen over and it's full of dead people. Uh, and, and so everything's spiraled already and you're all you're doing is bringing some hope and making and clearing it. And yes, if there's someone like we'll get, we'll find them, but they might not be. And we've searched. I mean, a horrible day in hates in 2010 where every, every building was contained that people and, and they will be in gangs that day made some rescues. And that mentioned that, but I also had their relatives there. So I was personally giving the bad news to every demographic of mom and dad, daughter, son, the lot, all the way. And you realize you use, you're serving such an important purpose. You've got to humanize that moment so that they can go to grief well, or as well as you can manage, and you can't be robotic and go Bernadette.
Speaker 1 00:19:07 And again, a red shirt had a dead next, we move on. We've really got to take a moment to make that because that's part of what we're there for. And so we were not only there to make rescues with effort, anything that we can do to support the recovery or the new normal and, and to bring some broker, some hope, brokering hope is really big on our discussions with ourselves about how we can make something better, but really it helps us stay in us. So I don't know, I picked like a service. I could have picked anything from your headings because they're really exciting and useful, um, to talk through. Uh, but I thought that one probably underpins my life and links to coaching links, to leadership links, to mindset. It really, really hits these, hits those buttons. And, um, so it's a fascinating thing to explore. And also the, the, the name of your podcast, give yourself a chat.
Speaker 0 00:20:05 Yeah. I'd like to explore that a little bit as we get back to the sort of life of service piece. It's, um, it's interesting. There's so much in what you've just said there, Dan, about you as a, a young boy and man growing up and everything else like this, and it's when you said that, you know, you just love playing sport, but actually, you know, you went to school was about sport and skiving. And basically if I'm paraphrasing and, and I, I think about when I joined the army, it was always, I wanted to travel the world and play sports. So I there's, I resonate an awful lot with what you're saying there, but it was interesting is that there's loads in what you've just said there, but I want to pick out a few things and then we'll get onto the, give yourselves a chat piece and whatever it's how, um, mentors and guides show up in your life at some point where you don't perhaps recognize it at the time, but they do a tremendous service to set you up for the man that you've become.
Speaker 0 00:20:54 And the men that we we've become. An and, and I reflect on in my early military career, certain, um, um, officer commanding or, or even my sort platoon Sergeant that let's, you decided to take me under their wing much like that person in your fire station that said, you're not going to be watching TV. You're going to be cleaning the kitchen. You're going to be learning. And, and it's when you reflect on that and you look back, you think, Oh my gosh, that was such a powerful intervention that somebody did for me, then that was them serving me. And, and, and for me, recognizing that has, has kind of driven the desire to want to pay it forward because I know how powerful it can be and how life changing it could be. I mean, I mean, when you look back on that, I mean, how, I mean, how pivotal was that for you becoming the person that you are now, those, those mentors along the way?
Speaker 1 00:21:43 Well, I mean that character and that watch had a reputation for being a very old school, really tough problem people, uh, and uncompromising, I, and I was warned about this as they're leaving recruit train, and you're going to this watch and blah, blah, blah. There's a lot of expectations and you're gonna have to be a little bit fair. The moment I've got that I know I'll tell you what, that is a massive reputation that in some ways is maybe some jealousy around the team start to type team. And it turns out, and I learned this as I went through was, don't get too many pats on the back. You get looked after, uh, you don't get, um, high fives and excited cause actually in my world too much drama is a bad news. It takes the energy off you. So I learned that really well from them.
Speaker 1 00:22:30 But what you did was it, it turns out a whole team who had invested in saying we haven't had a probation for 15 years. This is going to be best five could possibly turn out. And, uh, and I didn't know that until I was told that by the leading hand, when I, when I finished my, um, you know, my probation and I did well, and it was great, but, but I learned a lot there about this is they put themselves into that without it being an overt, it wasn't even reciprocity. It didn't, they didn't need a I've helped you. So you better appreciate that sunshine. None of that, it was the outcome on that. So really solid thing that you can learn and imprinting other people. And I very much, very much have learned from that and tried to do that as like helping others with your example, or by investing in them, or even giving them the space and the, and the credit to do something
Speaker 0 00:23:21 Well. And that's interesting because it very much links to, I mean, very early on the conversation you talked about, uh, it may have been off air we're about ego and how ego can kind of cloud that. And there's this idea of service is genuinely the fulfillment and that the payback over life of service is not necessarily recognition. It's just, there's something within that actually, do you know what this, this is the right thing to do, and you get back more than you ever could than a Pat on the back or an award could give you. And it's really hard to kind of get your head round, but when you are, when you experience it, there's, there's nothing like it really it's it's.
Speaker 1 00:23:57 Yeah. It's also, I think it's also a protection. So we have to take care of our mental well, everyone does, but we really have to, can be concerned about our mental health with our team and the pressures they're under anyway, when we do missions in the same right now, in fact, uh, and, and I think that's, um, if it is genuine and honest, and that purpose is, is inside and doesn't need explaining too much, then you are, you've got some body armor for your, uh, your soul for your, for your wellbeing. And you have got that because that's the unquestionable bit. So we go into definitely indicate us. I also don't personally, some people at work will test, but not massively into bringing order to chaos in of walks of life for probably brought chaos in that. Um, but I would say there is a, there is, there is an amount of certainty that's needed, but total certainty doesn't exist.
Speaker 1 00:24:48 And we have to be comfortable with a larger percentage of uncertainty and operate in, in my world where we work. So, so when we go in to, uh, a unknown place, there's no communications, no food, no power, no water. It's possibly hostile Mountain's apartment. And wherever else we operate, you've got a lot of uncertainty. So what you need is to know that we trust each other, that we can fail, but that's just because we're trying hard that we will not be fractured by success, failure, hardship, or any of that. W w we, we absolutely rely on each other. And we look into the neon, know that, um, that should be, that's your certainty for me. That's my certainty take care of the finding a way I'm also pretty confident with going away. I don't know what it, it's always, I can definitely borrow some confidence. Uh, and it's not a secret. You do, don't you, when you're leaving, sometimes you have to say, I know in this room, we've got the skills to do this, so it's going to be fine, what we're going to do. I'm not sure.
Speaker 0 00:25:47 Yeah. That's about it. I'm confident that if we ask the right questions, we'll, we'll find it.
Speaker 1 00:25:51 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, and so if you, if you have to have a veneer, that's, that's basically, I guess, you know, if it's, if it's bullshit, I suspect too, you're putting on a layer or a massive insecurity. We can't do that. So we can't operate. So our performance level can't achieve this. If it's a, if it's either going, so Lee goes, or it's got its own sub reputations or, um, or fears. And in fact, I guess it's like when we work with elite performance of really impressive people at the very, very high end have no performance snobbery in it, they'll learn from any little thing. And they're curious, and they're interested in, and they, they give respect and credit to anything around them that can help, but that's really hard to do when everyone puts you on a pedestal. So we just, so we don't have those.
Speaker 1 00:26:42 We're just, and, and we wear coveralls and it's dirty and horrible and messy. I know our performance is on occasion, just I'm paranoid. Sometimes it's not even a big, uh, when we, when we put it into the, into the test, if you like, w w the show upended what we do that they're not, I know we come out really well. Uh, and I, I would say that I, like I said, judged on our people, um, and their attitude to most people would be broken by, or see as failure. We can turn it around and fight our way through and make it better. And I really, I love that part of my life. I hadn't guessed why it becomes part of what you do. Uh, and then again, the next bit, I guess, is seeing it in other people, seeing you coaching, seeing other people thrive, uh, find a way feel better is a, in itself is a huge reward.
Speaker 1 00:27:33 Uh, and, and not everyone is interested in that. And then, you know, a lot of people are interested in themselves and actually do you know what this will different, but, um, but for me, I know that TIF my heart at a time. So if I feel sorry for myself, uh, and if I'm not helping something else, my teammates, if they're looking at for you to, to help, if you're relying on me, uh, all that side of things, if, if fat's not around, uh, you can feel sorry for yourself. And the moment you do that, everything is terrible. Like, you know, and it's, it's a bit itself only find if it's self-indulgent. And, um, so I always think that by the time you realize you're feeling sorry for yourself, it can be a little bit too late on the, on the curve. So it's almost like making sure that, uh, I'm doing things for other people now, I'll be absolutely honest.
Speaker 1 00:28:21 That's not a plan for longterm life. And, and I definitely suffered as a result of it because you need to get the balance. You need to come and go from that self. And I'm still on that journey. Uh, you know, we probably will. Uh, but, um, while working with the likes of Jason and now, because, uh, we have, uh, we all have our different bits of a triangle that help each other so much and, and produce some good stuff. Uh, but the ego piece, um, I guess, I guess the ego is sometimes required to give a bit of confidence, you know, uh, in some areas, but in terms of a team, in terms of real trust, in terms of, it just tends to mess you up, you know, just tends to take quality away from you and, uh, or, or build up a problem that you didn't need that, and you must have been there. And so we all, when you, when you start clashing with somebody and then you have to step back and go, we're only crushing over some bloke thing. This is stupid. I can let someone have that because the outcome is what I'm after. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:29:21 Well, absolutely that ego is, um, I don't know how much reading you do down, but there's a wonderful book called ego is the enemy by Ryan holiday and kind of says it all, you know, and, um, uh, there's an astronauts. I forget, it's Chris Hadfield talks about, there's no problems so bad that you can't make it worse. Uh, and quite often, you know, it's the ego that will kind of make it
Speaker 1 00:29:42 Worse. It's just kind of call for petrol on the flames. You touched upon there a little bit about sort of mental resilience and mindfulness and, and the pressure it puts on you. And I also know that you, you were quite taken with the title of this podcast, give yourself the chat. What w what is, what is give yourself a chat mean first for Dan? Oh, the amount of time. So, um, it would be properly, there is a side to me that doesn't worry too much, uh, and, and does things. Um, and that sounds really careless. It doesn't mean I'm not thinking it means that the best way I can quickly go to a, to a place. And, and, and once I've decided, uh, uh, great, I love adapting, but I won't worry about regret. So, and that suits the world argument. It doesn't suit everything and, and it's not perfect, but there are definitely moments when, uh, you're about to either get off an aircraft and do something, or, or, uh, decide that you're going to stand in front of premier of a country.
Speaker 1 00:30:41 And they had to have some military groups and all the rest of it and say, and speak truth to power. And you think, Oh, I could get himself into trouble here, but you've got a job to do, and you do it. And there are moments there. We have a few deep breaths and, uh, you know, there'll be a breathing, have a look around, but you know, what I also remember is, uh, everyone expects you to do it. You'd be fine. But I do have that the moment that says, people believe in you, you can do this. And it does relate to other people. Um, we should be careful not to please make peanut, please everyone, and, and care you. But especially in the world of social media, he cares, you know, tech like, and all the rest of it. But there is a bit where the people that matter to you believe in you, and it gives you some competence.
Speaker 1 00:31:23 So I have a few moments like that, and I know also moments of classic moments with, and it's a cliche, but, you know, I'm diving on a ship bracket and there was a new shit, right. Somewhere in the South China sea. Um, and, uh, and, and we've been told there's some really quite big tiger sharks around and what have you. And, uh, it wasn't, it wasn't for fun. And, um, I remember thinking, you know, I love diving. I love being a hobby. Sometimes some days you, those fears of that aren't made about the birth to go and the thing and big sharks and w and it was dark. And, and I remember that quote, and I still like it, even though it's pretty naff and it's probably tattoos of it everywhere, but it's the devil whispered in my ear. You're not strong enough to weather the storm.
Speaker 1 00:32:05 And, uh, today I whispered in the devil, I am the storm remind yourself that it's awful, but remind yourself sometimes that you're, you're a member of the apex predator group. Yes, they are. They could be, they could be scared of you for a change. Uh, you know, didn't help and full-size gigantic tiger shark came and gave us our time, but it does help you get into that moment and say, actually that, you know, um, this, this is, this is a little moment having a little word, and I don't know if it's always the same grace for me, but there was definitely a moment, uh, before we, uh, something where you go to the pool or something, usually it's something where there's pressure, where you just remind yourself of this. And I spent a lot better me. He's our scientific advisor. He's a great psychologist. Um, he did a whole day cause he's, he's an expert in fear, which is fascinating.
Speaker 1 00:32:55 So the basic people had, he spent a day with me, I think it was only supposed to be two hours, but I was like, let's do this. This is, this is gold dust moment to spend the day with someone like that. And, um, it's so interesting to find out about how, what actually happens and the idea that you, you might have all these columns of things going on and like physically feel them disappear so that I can focus on what I'm doing. And that's, that's the moment I'm aware of usually driving to an airport, uh, with people on the hands really saying, well, what about this? What about, and just literally cutting through decisions that you'd agonize over for age, it's not gonna happen. Cause as long gonna be here, don't worry about it. And then, and then narrowing into our mission and, um, I'm feeling that happened. So those, those give yourself a chap moments are sensations as well, but I really liked it cause I hadn't heard that expression and I did like it a lot. And um, yeah, it definitely resonates fits. Uh, yeah, it really, really does go well with, with my experience.
Speaker 0 00:33:50 Well, well, yeah, thank you for it. I think as much of it it's, um, it's that self awareness and it's just really that, that pattern interrupt that we kind of intervene and, you know, and it can be, uh, it can range from all sorts of making key decisions before, you know, stepping up and briefing heads of state to getting us out of bed in the morning. It says, recognizing there's this sort of train of thought pattern, that's not necessarily going to serve your mission or the purpose of why you're here. Um, and I think it's just connecting with that and I think you've used it. It's like a reframe, isn't it sometimes as well as how you actually mentally positioned in your mind what this means. And, uh, and, and going back to that, what drives that life of service? And he said, it's not the, the measurable things.
Speaker 0 00:34:32 It's not the, the amount of light it's, it's actually connecting sometimes to the deeply personal that single person that you can help, that can make all the difference in think, do you know what I'm feeling? Sorry for herself, but actually it's not as sorry as these people and these people need me right now. So there's so much in that way, we've come to the end of our time. But, um, I'm yeah, we'll have you back on further down the road. Um, and perhaps we can do a face to face episode, um, when all this kind of lifts or I'll come and see you on your canal boat there, because I'm just fascinated that there's so much there. And Dan, I think it's just testimony to, I think when people, um, you know, social media can be a force for good. And now when we've met through social media and it brings people together, particularly during coronavirus any hard times there. And I think it's important for like minds to come together and spread a message. So, you know, if, if this will help anyone kind of just really sort of tune into the work you're doing and serve on and everything else, I, and be inspired to volunteer or to help, or even just to sit on their hands and wait out and to be called for, then we've done our job. So I just want to thank you for your time today. And I look forward to chatting you sometime in the future. Really brilliant. Thank you.
Speaker 0 00:35:48 Oh, I really enjoyed that one. We'd done Kirk there, and there was so much that we could have gone into a fascinating life of service, adventure and putting himself in harm's way and also the coordination of high performing teams. So we'll definitely have done back at a later episode for the time being though, please come and connect with me on LinkedIn. That's where the conversation's going on. Feel free to suggest who you'd like as a guest on the, give us of the chat podcast and any subjects you'd like me to cover. And also share this with your community. Let's get the word out there because if this podcast has helped one person, then my mission is, is not complete, but certainly heading in the right direction. So thank you very much for your time and I'll see you on the next one.
