Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hello, and welcome to the, give yourself the chat podcast. I'm your host, Peter Lewis. And this show is all about leadership, coaching and living
Speaker 1 00:00:07 Life of high performance. So, hi, everyone. Welcome to,
Speaker 0 00:00:18 To give yourself a chat podcast, another episode, um, and I'm really excited to introduce you to a chap called Glen Tran, who I've only met on social media, but I'm meeting so many wonderful people on social media during this lockdown. So, uh, Glen, it's good morning for me, but I think it's good evening to you over in Australia there. Yes, it is. It's just on 6:30 PM. So the family is eating dinner and it's, it's lovely to be here, Peter, very well. It's lovely to have you with us. So you would have got, I'm afraid you get the second price. You're you're not my furthest podcast guest. I actually had another chat last week from Melbourne I'm on. And so he got the prize for furthest, but coming in second is not too bad. It's wonderful to have you with us. And today we're going to explore an awful lot of, of, um, what's what you and I are passionate about.
Speaker 0 00:01:07 And we'll, we'll come onto the subject material in a second book for the, for the listener or couple of listeners now, cause this podcast is growing. Um, we're still in lockdown, it's still pandemic. So, um, how, how has it been for you over there in, uh, in Melbourne with, with this whole pandemic and we're beginning to lift it now. So what's going on for you? How's your health? How's your family. How's everything else. Yeah, it's sort of been crazy. So I've got, um, three children, so to go to university, um, one of them actually goes to the U S so we brought him back to the U S he's got a scholarship in U S and he's studying business. Um, my wife has been working from home, my youngest who's 16. He's actually been doing his schooling him from home and my consulting work, all of that's gone to remote work that I've been doing, but, um, we've juggled things around and, um, the family is doing great.
Speaker 0 00:02:02 Um, so on a personal basis have upped my exercise during this period of time, because it's important that I feel good about myself. Yeah. Yeah. Very good. So I mean, one of the primary things is as long as we have our health, there's, there's an awful lot of good that can come out of this situation. But of course, a lot of people have, uh, being affected really badly and it's very devastating. So we wouldn't wish to sort of belittle that at all. But if you have your health and you've got the, you know, your, your family around you there, I don't know about you, but I've seen this as quite some opportunity. And, and not only the opportunity we were talking about this just for <inaudible>. Um, you and I are sporting the longest haircuts we've ever had for what, over 15 to 30 years we were saying. So there's one opportunity for starting there, but in terms of opportunity for business, I know you into coaching. I know you've worked with executives over me, so about, you know, working from anywhere, but you've particularly focused on working from home quite obviously. So tell me about how you've kind of adjusted your business during this period.
Speaker 2 00:03:00 Yeah. So when COVID first hit, I actually lost two months worth of work overnight. So my entire pipeline just disappeared that I had what was confirmed business. And while some of that could have been converted to online it organizations weren't too sure where their next dollar was going to come from. So, and that made sense. So we said, Hey, let's, let's leave that as it is at the moment. So that made me focus on the working from home component because that's where the real need was. So I started putting content out there. My background is I've been a consultant for over 20 years. And when you're a consultant, you work from anywhere you work from the client, from the customer's, um, premises, you work from your car, you work from cafes, you do work from home. So I've, I've had a lot of experience in working from home and supported a number of my customers who work from home. So what became a small thing that I was doing became the thing that I was doing.
Speaker 0 00:03:59 Yeah. Yeah. And I similarly have found it the same. Yeah. My work dried up overnight. And I've managed to take a lot of that to the online space, but not everyone because as you say that those businesses are being affected as well. And it's it's, but you know, so far so good, which is encouraging. But I, I know that perhaps, you know, you've, you've not always been working as a consult. I don't know how much you, but you've had an executive life as well. And if we go back a little bit, I'd be fascinated to know what brings you to this point, because I know that there were some, some pivotal moments in your life where you've had to make some real kind of key decisions. And we're going to kind of broach the theme of, of sort of managing stress and burnout on this, on this podcast. But give us a sense of what brings you to this point, both professionally and personally then. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:04:50 So work ethic, that's something that's always been instilled in me. So I spent my first 14 years on a 1200 acre farm. So dad managed the farm. We didn't own the farm and you had your chores. So from five years old, I've been wheeling a wheelbarrow around and cutting wood and doing things like that in the rain hail or shine. Um, when I went to high school, I was fortunate enough in when I was in year 11. So my second, last year of high school, I started playing in a senior men semiprofessional basketball league. So what I wanted to do, I thought I'd be a professional basketball. And, um, I actually had some injuries and then discovered I wasn't quite good enough. So that never really eventuated, even though I applied at that semiprofessional level for a period of time. But, um, when I did my last high school exam and I remember everyone was going down the pub to celebrate, I got on my push bike and rode, ran into businesses in the area I was living in and tried to get a job.
Speaker 2 00:05:53 And the second business I went to, I got a job. I just wanted to get some money coming to pay for my car and things like that. Yeah. This work ethic. And so I didn't go to university. I went through businesses and I ended up getting in to it when I was 23 years old. And that was an it consultant. And I worked, I started near the bottom. I was a cadet consultant on the lowest possible hourly rate. And I couldn't customers would actually pay $50 a day. Now for me, way back then, we're talking about the 1980s. Um, my work, my way up through the ranks. And I spent nearly 20 years in it too. I ended up being professional services, director of Southeast Asia for a us company. So I was traveling two out of every three weeks. I had a young family.
Speaker 2 00:06:46 I, um, was working with somewhere between 60 and 80 hours a week. Um, there was a quota club where you and your partner could go to some event around the world. Somewhere. I made that half a dozen times. It was 130% quota club. And so you'd literally sell your soul to go away for a week. And it looks crazy in hindsight, but that's was sort of the mindset how I had. So, um, what sort of got me to that level ended up being quite detrimental because the more I was given, I just do. So I just kept on working longer and longer hours. And my wife started noticing something about me that I was getting quite short fused at home. I was always tired. I barely slept. I was only sleeping three to four hours a night because I just couldn't turn off. And, um, she told me not to do it, this that I need to stop it.
Speaker 2 00:07:46 And I just ignored her because believe it or not, I was still having fun. Um, most years I had double digit growth in my business units that I had. Um, I was earning more money than what I thought was ever possible. Um, so I said, I'll just do it for another five years and then we'll be able to retire. Um, I think I lost it three months and I've burnt out. Um, so that was late 2006. And I think I had an anxiety attack at work, something wasn't right. I remember I just grabbed my phone. I walked out called my wife, Sam. I said, something's not right. And then we started going and getting help. And, um, I actually didn't work for 15 months. I was in that bad of a way. And it was called, it was referred to as being chronic fatigue syndrome.
Speaker 2 00:08:35 And that worked for me from a mental sense. Yeah. Because I'd heard of athletes had that a nod. I had this athletic background. I was, I was still playing, I played basketball at the time. Um, and, um, so I thought it was this physical ailment, but as I through it and came out the other end, I actually realized it was a form of mental illness, essentially my brain shut down and said, I just can't do this anymore. Yeah. And, and in hindsight, I can honestly say it's one of the best things that's ever happened to me. And it's one of the best things that ever happened to me because I got to see my kids grow up. So I would have, I got to be involved in my kids more so when I was overseas, I mean, a state now, if I was missing a birthday or a family event or meeting with friends or whatever it was, I'd feel guilty about it.
Speaker 2 00:09:32 So I've got the challenge of work and then I'm feeling guilty about the things that I'm not doing, that my parents were able to support me. And so I was really juggling and sort of torn with this situation. Um, and then what chronic fatigue, um, what it did for me, it actually got me to slow down. Um, and we're not even work for 15 months. Like my youngest was two years old. Um, we need to know where our next dollar was coming from. So Sam didn't work at the time because she was raising the family. She went back to work. So I started looking after it, youngest Bo. And what I discovered was that I actually love work. I love the social interaction of work. I love this concept of being your mind being challenged. Um, and I wasn't getting that. So my whole mindset changed from where I wanted to work for a shorter period of time and actually retire early. I actually now want to work for as long as I can, what I want to do that's length in years, but I want to get the right balance in my working week. So it's gotta be sustainable and what I was doing, wasn't sustainable.
Speaker 0 00:10:41 So Glen, there's so much in that and thank you for kind of just letting us know or that there's a couple of things. And when you, when you said, you know, it had been diagnosed and labeled as chronic fatigue syndrome, there was that, that part of you thought it was almost like, yes, that's what athletes have. And that's kind of, and that association with the label was aren't you in hindsight and that not necessarily a healthy attachment to that label because it almost reinforced the mindset and the behavior that brought you to that point.
Speaker 2 00:11:14 Absolutely. Yeah. It was just him, my mind worked. And what I discovered is that whenever I'm talking to someone who's going through some challenges is labels. Don't matter. People want to put a label on it. They want to put us in a box. What ended up happening to the individual, I think, is quite unique for them. What's more important is what we do to get out of that situation. That's far, far more important, so sure. There's got to be some analysis, some diagnosis and stuff, but let's let go of the label. So, because that, to me, that's the irrelevant piece.
Speaker 0 00:11:51 Yeah. And I guess, I guess a start with it helps to, um, identify and put a vocabulary around it, but then really it's, it's the actions you take as a support mechanisms and things like that. I want to kind of come in onto that a little bit more in a second, but there's, there's a number of things. I mean, before we came on air, we were talking just kind of quickly getting to know each other about, you said your kind of personality was, you know, even when he went out for a run, everyone had to be a PB. And so I can see how that, that, that drive is, can be very seductive. I mean, did it for years and years and years, you were, I forget the name of that sort of the, the holiday that you weren't for being the sort of highest earner type of thing. But I wonder when you actually went on those, those trips that you had won through the fact that you were one of the star performers, could you even switch off and enjoy those? Because the irony is you worked really hard to have this kind of downtime. I'm imagining you downtime. Wasn't something that even existed back in your former self.
Speaker 2 00:12:49 I didn't do a great job of it. Or although sometimes I'd, I'd actually party quite hard and drink by myself
Speaker 0 00:12:56 Again, similar behaviors coming out though, isn't it?
Speaker 2 00:12:59 Absolutely. Absolutely. So one of the things that I learned through chronic fatigue was that I actually didn't have an off switch as crazy as this sounds. So I'd have many scenarios where the head office that I worked for head office was in Chicago. They would send me an email on their Thursday, which meant I would get it on my Friday. And they'd say, I need X, Y, and Z by Friday night, their time, which was sometime my Saturday. Now I want to spend time with my family. So instead of pushing back and say, Hey guys, you've got to give me more time for this. I would do it. So I'd stay at the office on Friday night to 10:00 PM, 11:00 PM. 1:00 AM. I would do the work, had just had this crazy, crazy mindset. And that's why it just wasn't healthy. So it's what got me there. I couldn't maintain that level. And that's why I say burning out was such a good thing that happened to me because, um, it could have been, I've got full 100% health. It could have been far more serious than that.
Speaker 0 00:14:02 Hmm. So it's interesting because we hear this. Often people get awake, wake up, call, you know, that they're living an unhealthy lifestyle and the way you describe it is even though you're kind of going full gas, it's unhealthy. Let's, you know, and it's, it may be a different type of unhealthy to someone that's smoking themselves or doing whatever or drinking too much. But, but it takes that wake up call. And now looking back, as you can see, you can join all the dots a bit, but going forward, did you have any recognition of the, sort of the cliff edge that you were, you were hurting towards?
Speaker 2 00:14:38 What, was there a recognition? You mean at the time? Was it a recognition? Yeah, I'll sort of say no. Um, even though it was happening, like I got, um, in 2006, ran in the middle of the year, I got hooping cough. Um, I was registered on the state medical records. I had to be locked up at home for a period of time. And, um, but it was just, Oh, that's just as unlucky. I travel a lot. So I must've picked it up some way, but I was so run down. I was picking up all these things. So it just wasn't healthy whatsoever. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:15:14 Yeah. That's good. So, so fast forward now. So we're now sort of present day, we're now sort of 10 years beyond that, that time in your life. Um, so, so how have you adjust that? Because that personality, that, that drive and everything, have you channeled that energy because that's something that I'm guessing doesn't go away. It's part of who you are. So how have you managed to harness that for the good of yourself, but also the good of the people that you're here to serve?
Speaker 2 00:15:42 Yeah, yeah. It really, really interesting. So to get better, there's a whole range of things that I did. And there was no one silver bullet, um, one of the important thing, and a lot of it was learning about myself. Um, but one of the important things that I did was meditation. So this concept of mindfulness, this concept of sitting down and thinking about nothing, you know, the first six months that I had to sit down and think about nothing, when I was trying to meditate, I tried so hard to think about nothing. I absolutely wasted it literally wasted it 100%. And it was this concept of just letting go. It wasn't something that I came from because you have a sporting injury. So if you sprain your ankle, then you strap it up and you get out and you're back out there on the field or the court, or, or doing whatever you're doing.
Speaker 2 00:16:35 But your mind, you can't do that to your mind. So I had to learn to start watching my thoughts. I had to learn to take control of my thoughts. So I was actually quite undisciplined without realizing it. Um, but I got some more discipline around that. So that mindfulness sort of piece really, really helped me. Um, so then I started and it was really funny in, um, 2007, I was doing a couple of types of meditation. Uh, Zen meditation was one. I was going to a monastery, a Naomi, um, and the head of the monastery, um, was a Vietnamese guy in his sixties, um, who actually fought in the Vietnam war for Vietnam, really, really interesting guy, full of so much wisdom. And as I was getting better, he said to me, Hey, you know, I think you're getting better. I said, you know, I, I feel like I am.
Speaker 2 00:17:29 He says, what do you want to do? And I'll never forget this. All of the negative thoughts came out of my mouth of what I didn't want to do. I didn't want to go back to it. I didn't want to do what I was doing again. And his response was, I think you should help people. And I'm like me, how can I help people? And he goes, time's up. That's how he let me ponder that thought for a week. And in that week I worked it out. It was the irony of my expertise was that I was good at achieving, but I was good at achieving at working really, really hard was that I wanted to help people achieve their outcomes easier. I wanted to help people to be able to get balanced, to be able to deal with stress, to be able to actually just get the work done with an absolute minimum of fuss. And I went and joined a company who did just that. And I, I joined them as a sales rep to start off with, and it was something quite a light
Speaker 0 00:18:30 Role as that sort of introduced
Speaker 2 00:18:32 Back into the workforce.
Speaker 0 00:18:35 Okay. But isn't that interesting about switching to more of a life of service or, or how you can help others rather than perhaps up until this point. It was that sort of, ego-driven helping myself to hit targets and whatever, but never actually thought about how much more successful you can be if you just have a more externally referenced piece. And we, we, we were, we were talking about ego before we kind of hit record there. And it's interesting habits, ego purpose meditation keeps coming up with all my podcast guests and, and we're talking about very different subjects, but there are some foundational things and I know mindfulness is something and I'm with you on that one. My, my meditation practice, it's the world's simplest thing to explain, but it's one of the most hard skills that you can find develop, isn't it it's um, and I was chatting to somebody recently, he said, well, just, you know, learn to observe the thought don't, don't follow the thoughts.
Speaker 0 00:19:35 And so I'm practicing every morning doing it. Um, but I guess that's the point. I mean, your, your Vietnamese monk friend there would say, well, you know, that the power is in the process. Again, it's not, absolutely, it's not a finish line you're racing towards, it's just the process, which is helping you. And you need to recognize that let's talk about ego as well and how perhaps that the ego kind of plays into some of the problems that we might face and, and, and perhaps how managing the ego can, can, can help people. What, what's your kind of thoughts and view around that subject?
Speaker 2 00:20:11 Well, I think to be successful, it's good to have a healthy ego. I think we've got to believe in ourself. I think we've got to believe that we're good with, I think being driven, conscientious, all those sorts of things, I think are fantastic attributes. Um, we just gotta be mindful that they don't get to dangerous levels, that we've gotten enough to manage it somewhat. So I'm a way better listener than what I ever was. Because when, when my ego is really, I had all the answers, even if I didn't have the answers, I had an opinion,
Speaker 2 00:20:45 I've learnt his, it's such a powerful thing in understanding someone else's perspective and they may not be the loudest talker. They might be someone quiet, but if you can pull out someone's perspective from them and you stop and think you go, Hey, I haven't thought about that. That's not a bad idea. Let's flesh this out a little bit more. So this concept of being inquisitive, I think, is such a great thing. And this is for leaders because leaders have to be invested in their people. Leaders need to be understanding, but they also need to be trying to try and understand what works best for individuals, because how someone works isn't necessarily what works best for someone else. So we've, we're juggling all these different types of personalities and all these different types of people. So how do we manage that best? And, uh, and I think this servant leadership is this concept of we're there to serve that we're there, we're interested in people and we want to get a culture that people care about, um, when we're able to get that happening, the results just amazing what happens.
Speaker 0 00:21:57 Hmm. Yeah, it's it's if I think when that, when that penny drops and, and you, you know, you decided to give people a damn good listening to, rather than a talking to, and just sort of sit on your hands, as far as your opinions concerned is the magic really happens. So part of the, part of the listeners, you know, most of them will be business owners, executives, and people that would perhaps potentially get caught up in, in the, kind of the, the hustle and the grind and everything else like that. But, you know, if they were, if they were to kind of work with you, how, how do you get people to kind of recognize before it's too late and help them manage and get more balanced? Um, what got, what kind of things would you, would you begin with and start with with them?
Speaker 2 00:22:44 Yeah, well, that's a really interesting question because you've got some folks who are like myself back in 2006, who are pre 2006. We're going now. I'm fine. Um, but what I'm really trying to understand is, is, is with people with what they're doing. Is it scalable? No, if it's scalable, is it sustainable? So if they were to take on a bunch of additional responsibilities tomorrow would the impact of that be now there's a lot of bravado out there. Yeah, I'll be fine with that. But deep as we drill further and we start looking at their results, their performance, um, what the interests are, what are they doing in that integrating work life, family together. We start to find some holes. So the first thing that we've got someone to coach, someone they've got to want to be coached is a very first thing. Of course, if they're there with, if they're there with trying to fold my arms here on the camera, but if they're there with their arms folded, then it's really, really difficult for that.
Speaker 2 00:23:47 So, um, I want to, I work with people who are invested in improving. So we're trying to find that connection because I'm someone I'm actually not gonna leave him alone. I mean, I'm going to challenge him and push him to try and help get the best outcome for them. Now, if they don't want it, then that's a, that's a bad fit for them. That's a bad fit for me, so that they're really wasting their money with me, if that's the case. And I'm very upfront with that. Cause I want the best outcome for the individual there's such.
Speaker 0 00:24:17 Yeah. Yeah. It's um, but, but it is predicated on the individual recognizing that they potentially might need the assistance or, or help. And what we don't want is a generation of people rushing towards that cliff edge. And, and then it's that moment where they've realized something's got to change, isn't it not? And I guess things like podcasts and, and, you know, I know you've written a book on this kind of helps just to try and raise awareness around that, but we can only do so much an individual needs to recognize in themselves that, that they, they need to help. But therein lies the challenge. I mean, it happened to you it's happened to me. We don't necessarily recognize the warning signs. Do we have what we're heading for?
Speaker 2 00:24:57 No, no, no, we don't. And sometimes, so what I'll do is I'll ask, so if I work with someone I'm also working with their leader as well, cause I want to understand, and I asked the ladies the questions. So what's three things that you'd like to see differently after the engagement, or do you like to see, do more of what you like to seem to diff less of and what would you like to see them do differently? Um, and then we start to try and reconcile this data together because often leaders don't communicate necessarily well with the people. So the people think that they're going along swimmingly well, but in actual fact, this they're struggling. They're not achieving what they're expected to be achieving. So I'm often that circuit breaker, that reconciliation point. And we do it in the nicest way possible because it's about getting the best out of people. So it's not about giving them a hard time, but it's also stretching them a little bit. So they get something it's goodness, that's coming out the other end.
Speaker 0 00:25:55 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that's absolutely, what's your views on, um, the hustle culture, you know, they, uh, you know, you, you, you see it on the internet though, is, you know, it's yeah. It's the 4:00 AM club is they get up at five club that says, go smash. It it's natural this man, what's he kind of beyond that. I could probably guess, but you know, what's your thinking on that?
Speaker 2 00:26:16 Well, it's funny when, when I wrote my book, I got up at 5:00 AM every day and I wrote it between 5:00 AM and 7:00 AM and I knocked it out in six weeks. Um, but it sorta, nearly killed me along at the same time. Cause I found my productivity dropped right off throughout the day. So that doesn't work for me. I, I see people who do it and I, and my take is, and I asked them a few questions about it and, and if it's really working for them, I, Hey, knock yourself out, keep on doing it. Sure. But that's not something that I would do personally, because if the rest of your house that you live in, isn't in sync in those times, then there's a good chance. You just reducing the amount of hours sleep you're getting throughout the night. And I think managing energy is so much more important than managing time. So I look at, I ensure that I manage my energy levels.
Speaker 0 00:27:07 Yeah. And I think that's the important thing. I mean, I have an early morning routine, but it's, uh, it's meditation, it's stretching, it's reading or listening to an audio book it's running and then it's a contemplated breakfast. And what I mean by that is, you know, I don't put my don't access my inbox until I've had time for me. So I build that time. It just happens. It starts around about sort of six o'clock in the morning or so, but I recognize that actually it's the management of energy. So sometimes I sat in on a non alarm date. It's just let my body wake up when it needs to wake up, because to your point, burnout is just literally burning that candle until there's nothing left to burn. And then, and then trying to burn it some more. I think the, the management of energy and I love, I love how authors like Arianna Huffington, she talks about the power of sleep. And this is not, you know, saying that you are busy is not a badge of honor saying that you've only had three hours. Sleep is not clever, stupid, you know?
Speaker 2 00:28:05 Yeah, absolutely. And, and like, I'm really feeling for a lot of the people who working from home at the moment who are homeschooling with young families who, you know, some of these war stories, like they're just horrific of working 11:00 PM. 1:00 AM, you know, barely getting any sleep because they're concerned about their job in a tough economic climate. Um, and it's such a relevant point. So with everything that's going on, organizations still have to be say, what about the people? If people are our greatest asset, then we need to understand that everyone's situation is quite unique and we need to give support and assistance to those who need it.
Speaker 0 00:28:52 Yeah. Yeah. I know your kids are so grown up and coming back from university and whatever my children are, what they're not children anymore, 18 and 15 it's. But yeah, those I've got some friends who've got toddlers and to your point, they have the day with them. And then their working day starts at seven, eight at night and goes through and you think well done for you for being conscientious, but it doesn't look sustainable. And, but, so what is your employer doing to help you with that? Because I think employers need to get to the realization that I think what's really nice about this whole situation is that because we do so many of the video calls, you know, I've got a window into your, into your life there, you can see into my life. And I think actually this brings us close together and creates a far more empathy of each other's situations. But unless we learn this lesson and take it with us, cause you know, working from home used to be really, can we trust them what we've all been working for him for the last few months and yeah. Okay. Well we're suffering, but we're still getting on if we don't harness that, I think we'll just reset ourselves.
Speaker 2 00:29:55 Oh, we absolutely will. And I think the opportunity here is the next extension of this is true, flexible working, true flexible working with flexible hours, we're flexible forms of engagement, um, where we are integrating this work in life so much better. Now, I, there are some companies that will head down that path and there's others. They're just going to go straight back to what they were doing. And, and, and, and I think we've really gotta be looking at this and saying, Hey, if I want to attract the best talent and the best talent in a virtual work environment is actually a global talent pool or what attracts the best talent, then I need to be offering flexible working. And I need to have my systems and support structures and ensuring people, okay. If someone doesn't know how to work effectively from home, that's getting help so that they can work effectively from home. Yeah. And then we're going to get the gains out of it. So it should be that the glass is overflowing from this rather than being a glass half empty. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:31:01 And I think the more progressive organizations will we'll do that. And I work with some of my clients. It's been amazing what they've done for their, their workforce, which is awesome. We're kind of, um, rapidly coming to the end of our time, Glen, but I'd like to bring it back to you personally. And under our skin, the nature of this podcast, give yourself a chat really about how, you know, when, when you feel up against it or where you feel like taking the easy routes with, with the situation you're in. And I'm so glad that you found more peace now and are of service to others, considering your, your background, everything else like that. But in those moments where you still feel, feel that, that the pressure or the pain, how do you kind of manage that, that we can perhaps take away just as an idea or something to reflect upon.
Speaker 2 00:31:47 Yeah. Um, so I'm still very driven. So make no mistake about that. That's, that's part of my white makeup. I don't do it to crazy levels now. So when I'm feeling that pinch, um, sometimes I just put it down and we'll just go for walk outside because I just need to reset. Um, if I'm finding I'm not effective, I might even go for a run or a bike ride. So I can come back, get some perspective because whilst I'm out, I'm thinking about things. Cause typically when I'm in the city, when, back in the old days, when we would go to face to face meetings, um, I generally wouldn't catch a tram or a taxi between meetings. I walk between meetings because I wanted just that walking opportunity. Um, but I think better at those times, cause I get to reflect on things and I start, Oh, well he's, he's a better way of doing it. It's obvious, isn't it? Why aren't I doing that? So I take those moments. I'm not as harsh on myself as I used to be. Um, and I'm looking for opportunities or I might ring up, um, one of my customers or, or another consultant who I know. And I might ask them a question, I might say, Hey, I'm struggling with this. You got any ideas. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:33:04 And so that's interesting cause it's, um, you're still driven, but not being so harsh on yourself. Isn't letting yourself off the hook. I think it's just a more productive way of channeling that energy into something that will solve the problem or yield understanding rather than beating yourself up about it. And I think we can, especially in these sort of remote times really kind of getting locked up in our own inner Headspace. And part of that is to like say either how have a release I'm with you? You know, my wife says when I'm, when she notices notes of the signs of me getting a little bit kind of fidgety, whatever she said, get yourself out for a run because she knows that's how I reset. And you come back refresh. And I think a lot of us know this, but I think that temptation is when we're working in this sort of lockdown period, you can just be on this, the, these video calls all the time and you forget that you need to transition between events.
Speaker 2 00:33:56 Oh yeah, absolutely. And just the craziness of some people being on back-to-back zoom meetings all day. Yeah. And it's like, why? Yeah. Surely we don't need to be doing that that often. Surely because if we're working in the office, we still get a point in time throughout the day where we've actually got to do at work. Yeah. Because otherwise nothing gets done. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:34:23 And I think of all the good that can come out of this situation, that particular habit of back-to-back zoom meetings, or just squeezing that that is something we don't want to be carrying forward. We need to be carrying forward. How do you manage that in a productive way? Because you're right for it for every opportunity. There's always the downside there. Um, Glen, this has been absolutely fantastic. I know it's the evening there for you. So I do appreciate you giving up your time to, to be with us. And, and I know that even though we've already met on LinkedIn, we've got to know you so much better. We'll have you on again, further down the road. And, um, and, and it's just great to connect with you and thank you for doing what you do. So if people are, you know, um, interested in, in your work further, what's the best way of kind of getting in touch with you or finding more?
Speaker 2 00:35:08 Yeah. So my website is www <inaudible> dot com, which is Glen gr Lee, double N T R a N T E r.com. And as you mentioned, I'm also on LinkedIn, some posting content every day on LinkedIn. So I tend to share some thoughts around out there and would love anyone to connect with me through LinkedIn as well.
Speaker 0 00:35:33 Well, fantastic. Well, on that note, considering that we met on LinkedIn, uh, we now know you an awful lot better. Uh, it's wonderful to have you in my community and sort of the service that we can help each other with Glenn, thank you so much for being on, give yourself a chance.
Speaker 1 00:35:48 Thank you so much, Peter,
Speaker 0 00:35:57 Another fascinating guest with Glenn Tranter there on the, give yourself the chat podcast. We'd enjoyed chatting with him. And I think we can all recognize some of those traits that, that lead to burn out or stress or, or being less than mindful shall we say? And we can all look back in hindsight and, and, and see how those decisions start to aggregate and compound. And, and sadly for Glen, it reached a point where he had to take 15 months off work due to burnout. But as he said, it's the, it's the best thing that ever happened to him. So I think for us it's to recognize those patterns before they get to that tipping point or that cliff edge, if you like. So if you enjoyed this one, please hook up with me over on LinkedIn, suggest some other podcasts, guests that you think would be useful for give yourself a chat and, and indeed some other subject matter as well. It would be great to hear from you, but for the time being, look after yourself and I'll see you on the next one.
