Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hello, and welcome to the, give yourself the chat podcast. My name is Peter Lewis and this is the show dedicated to unlocking human potential and living in life high performance.
Speaker 1 00:00:09 <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:00:15 So welcome to, uh, give you some the chat podcast, another episode, and I've got a dear, dear friend of mine, Dave. O'Brien who we go back a long, long way. Dave, I think I've just trying to kind of count up. It's almost 30 years. I think that you and I met. How are you? I'm very well. Thanks. But yeah. Thanks. Thanks for inviting me onto this podcast. Yeah, you're very welcome. You're very welcome. And as I explained to you, we do make this up as we go along, we have a bit of structure, but it's, we've got quite a, quite an interesting sort of mix of conversations today. Um, we've got our shared experience around Sandhurst on you and I went through there and in 1992, my God, um, as young whippersnappers, we had shared experience on the alarms commander course down with the Walgreens in Lympstone, but latterly you've, you've kind of hit a bit of a, an entrepreneurial streak in the startup and also your love of ultra running.
Speaker 0 00:01:11 So there's probably far too much that we can fit into, um, the half an hour or so, but you're down in the Southwest how's things at the moment. Cause we're still coronavirus. It's still pandemic. How are things? Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's um, it's hitting a lot of people, very hard, isn't it? But I'm pleased to say that for me and the family, we've been really lucky, so we haven't had any of the symptoms or anything. So health wise we've been great. Um, we have nine people in the town who have had it, and I noticed some of those families a bit hit hard and financially for me, I've been able to continue work so well, the grand scheme of things compared to a lot of people we've been really far that I, you know, grew up very grateful for that, but it hasn't affected us too badly.
Speaker 0 00:01:53 So it's, it's really been more of an inconvenience than anything else being able to, you know, just have to structure. They slightly different kids. I think the kids coping pretty well, but they've been dying to get out and play with their friends, but they've had to change, you know, back in the back door and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. Always family walks once a day. It's an interesting one. Isn't it? I mean, you and I, we've kind of been lifelong exercises and what have you, and nine times out of 10, you and I are perhaps go for a run and not see anyone it's now I'm, I'm having to almost, you know, kind of say, excuse me, every 10 meters, because the amount of feed without walking or whatever, which I think is a great thing, it'd be interesting to see if that kind of habit sticks and loss, because I do think this is an opportunity for us as a society getting fitter and healthier and getting out more. My fear is that it won't last. What, what do you think? Um, yeah, I think as you pointed out, I think there's some real benefits. It's, it's slowed everything down. You know, families think families are spending more time together. It's a lot of quality time. The kids having the
Speaker 2 00:03:00 Parents' attention potentially, you know, no commuting for a lot of people, um, myself included. So I've had more time in the day to do stuff. You get out, you know, you explore your local area a lot more. So I've, you know, we both run a lot. I've been out exploring trails. I can do from home that I haven't even touched before. Cause I've always gone for more, you know, scenic or more testing. So it Hills and stuff but away. But, um, I found lots of great trails that I'll probably continue to use afterwards. I wouldn't have done, Oh, I just never would probably would have looked at every, you know, they sort of parts of it, but the local, the town, you know, so, you know, real benefits. And I think even those quality walks that you get with a family, um, you know, just spending time together is being really helpful.
Speaker 0 00:03:47 It it's, it's incredible. And I think you and I were chatting before we started recording that. It's also an opportunity to, what do you allow back into your life? Because I think this particular situation we've, we've had to strip things back in terms of activity, perhaps financially, we've been thinking about what we might spend our money on or not. And, and then I think there's one opportunity, but actually do I want to let commuting into London back into my life? Do I, do I want to do as many face to face meetings? Do we actually need to? So I think it is an opportunity, but to your point, I think we have to remind ourselves how grateful we are. We have our health and we don't, we can think about those opportunities rather than sort of being, being sort of up against it. Um, so you, you, you're keeping yourself busy, you have a day job, but you also have, I mentioned this sort of startup and we'll get into the whole endurance running piece in a moment, but tell us about how what's the startup idea for those people that have never met you.
Speaker 0 00:04:41 What what's, what's going on there because I find it's fascinating what you're doing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:04:45 Yeah. Okay. It's um, so I, as you mentioned, I do, um, insurance, um, events. So, uh, things like ultra running, so arduous mountain runs over a hundred miles sort of plus, um, and going through that experience and compete in these events is, is, has brought me to this sort of phenomenon that you get, which you'll understand that they're an iron man is that you get to their point in these races where you find it really difficult to eat. So you're in this conundrum where you need calories and you need to get the calories in to keep going to fuel your heal, your body. Um, but you feel nauseas for a number of reasons and you just can't eat very well. And it's, it was that problem. Um, I'll sort of thinking about that, that made me, um, start work on this product that I'm trying to bring to, uh, to the market.
Speaker 2 00:05:41 So in summary, for people who, uh, have competed in these types of events, you there's, there's lots of things on the market, like energy gels and carbide things that people fuel themselves with and also natural food at different feeding stations that you might have. But, um, this really is a replacement for energy gels and alternative to energy gels and bars and things like that, which the market's flooded with. Yeah, it's in natural. Um, it's basically fruit, nuts, seeds, vegetables, not, not, sorry, they'll come later, but seeds at the moment, uh, to give like a pure rate side, a product, which you can an organic, so it's as natural as it can be, um, which you can use on the, on the, you know, on the move. And it's actually quite, quite, um, quite nice on the stomach as well. So it's not, you don't get all that refined sugar hitting you all the time and peaks and troughs of energy spikes, you know? So yeah, that's, that's in essence what I'm working on and, um, and I've been sort of working on this for about two and a half. Well, the idea came about two and a half years ago and I've been sort of working acidotic the last couple of years. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:06:50 No, it's, it's more than, than a side hustle for you is. Um, but it, it is something which I think, I mean, you and I I've explored this, you, you, you, you've got this, you've identified this, this opportunity, you know, you're going up against some well established brands and things like this, but it's, but you've also got a day job and everything else like this, I mean, you've for the last two and a half years, you've put your heart and soul into it. And yet you're starting to get some traction, which is great. And, and, and, you know, if, if we can help through this podcast, get the word out there, but no, it'd be absolutely. Cause I think what you're doing. Cause I think for those listeners that aren't necessarily into, I mean, crikey, you said you've made casually, Dave said, you know, races over over a hundred miles and there may be people listening to this that think like, like I haven't done, you know, can't even do my 5k part on that.
Speaker 0 00:07:36 So that's a big enough goal for me at the moment. And of course it is, it's all relative. But I think the thing to understand about endurance running is up until a certain distance. You can get away with your nutrition, can't you, you can, you can wing it a little bit or you can take a jet or two and that'll get you through it. But past a certain point, your body really starts to crave either savory or something. That's going to sustain them rather than like you say, the sugar hit. And that's when the problems really happen for endurance athletes, iron man, ultra runners or whatever is that so much of a race is down to the nutrition, isn't it. And you've got to get that. You've got to get that nailed. So I think what you're doing is great. And um, I just can't, you know, when you've had too many gels, you just don't want to kind of see another gentle Banano in your life.
Speaker 2 00:08:25 Exactly. That it's that variety as well. You know, you need to try and we'll talk about it later, I guess on the know or solar, you know, specific types of food you need on that. If you're going to eat them, I add all sorts of stuff that I carried around, which in the end I just threw away. And a lot of people do, they don't, you've got to have the foods that your body's going to respond to and be able to eat, just eat. And it's difficult. I know it's really hard to describe, but I don't think anyone could, it's interesting that you think biologically you wouldn't, you, you probably wouldn't do that because it's, it needs the calories, but it does. And you find it very difficult to absorb, you know, to eat and, and chew and absorb this stuff. That's why I decide to put things in a pure way for, we can just squeeze down on the pouch because you want to, you know, you don't want to concerned with that sort of thing. You just need to get the calories in, but yeah, it's a, it's a strange phenomenon and it's, um, yeah. Being needing the fuel, but actually being nauseas or very, I find it very difficult to eat. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:09:25 My sort of Ironman races, um, on iron man, you can pick up what they call a special needs bag. So you can strategically place on the course, some foods you need. So I'd always put in there savory food, like, um, boiled new potatoes and salt and things like that. Because up until that point, it word had sugar and that would maintain it. But I changed something up for 'em to, to your point about, you know, really thinking and planning your strategy. Um, for Ironman, Florida last November completely changed my nutrition plan and worked out what I needed in terms of grams of carbohydrate per kilogram of body weight over at duration. And I'd never gotten that kind of scientific in inverted commas before, but I had the best race ever. And not only did I get a personal best, but actually I didn't suffer from the demons that descend upon you in a race, you know, when you give up and everything else on this. And I was blown away with how my nutrition actually affects your mental ability with these kinds of races. So I'd love to explore that with you and your thoughts around that, because I didn't realize how nutrition would have affected that side of me before.
Speaker 2 00:10:31 Yeah, that's a good point. It is. I mean, I'm not, um, it can get very scientific. I'm probably a bit, I don't know about you. I, I, I, um, I think you're probably a bit more thorough in your approach to racing to beat, but I I'm very much a sort of go out my body feels and, um, and sort of, you know, sort of why can't I don't, I try, I plan a bit out, but I don't, I don't go into too much of the science behind it, but I think, um, yeah, absolutely benefits from that. And that's how they, you know, the top athletes are performing by making sure they've got the right mix of fats carbs and protein and stuff for the, for the events. Um, I think, yeah, for me, it's very much about, you know, you've got to, you've just got to keep the, you know, every hour, every 45 minutes, you've got to keep the energy going.
Speaker 2 00:11:20 And if you don't do that, you're gonna, you're gonna hit the wall or whatever, you know, at some stage. And I, I I'm guilty of it on a number of races. And that's, we'll talk about probably the bit about the podcast. Cause that's what this is about. Isn't it, you get to, you get to those points and that's the sort of giving upstage and then answer, you know, how'd, you turn it around, but if you're fueling rides through the race, like you say, you shouldn't, if it's going well, you shouldn't be hitting those lows and having to deal with them psychologically. You know, that that's the, that's the challenge it, but I've, I've done it probably just about every race and some of the debt again. So many things I'd like to talk about, but, um, it's very, you know, to me, it's like the life of, if you run, I think I'm on the same when you're out for that length of time.
Speaker 2 00:12:09 If you're running over a hundred miles, pretty much guaranteed, there's going to be a low point or a couple at least. And, um, and it's how you deal with those that's key. And I think for me, yeah, sometimes it's three injury, not so much Kichler need much Kip fading, but in triathlon it would be, you know, you might have a puncture or you might have kid that fails to deal with it. Um, for me, it's very much about, yeah, low points of be eat properly, have stomach problems, that sort of stuff in, you know, you might have niggly injuries or know slight discomfort, something you have to deal with blisters, things like that. Um, so yeah, it's ha it's how you deal with those moments. And I think if you can, if you can keep the fuel going and that's one less thing to worry about, isn't it?
Speaker 0 00:12:53 Well, it's, it's one variable, which if you've got that nail, then, like I say, there'll be other moments in a race, which we'll explore in a second, that that will pop up. I've just reminded though we'll kind of move away from nutrition in a second. But if we think back, we think back to the commando course that we did back in sort of 93, which was what was it? Eight weeks long or so down at Marines training center. And, um, yeah, I remember just going on the kind of jumps and everything. He would just with a Mars bar and, and, and a water bottle leader. And that was it. And if you think to our 30 miler, um, we had a pasty stopped didn't we at hex worthy on wall and that was it. We went water, Mars, bars and pasties. I mean, we think back now, I think, Oh my God.
Speaker 2 00:13:41 Yeah. They emphasize in it, make sure you eat all of the pasties or, you know, that sort of stuff is that
Speaker 0 00:13:48 Let's talk about some of the events that you've done, you know, so if I casually said over a hundred miles or so, so, but what kind of got you into endurance racing and then perhaps sort of give yourself the chat moments either in any of those races or any race in particular marathon soluble or whatever, what kind of got you to start running those kind of distances?
Speaker 2 00:14:10 Um, well, yeah, I've always, I've always, uh, you know, doing physical has been a massive part of my life. Um, I guess looking back, you know, even on things like the commander, cause we were covering pretty long distances that would be classed as a, as an ultra, you know, 30 miles. It was over a marathon, um, with weight. So, so I guess we, we, we've got a bit of a background in that, in the sense of pushing ourselves and in those long distance runs, um, in the army, I did a date, a few things. They did few courses, um, training for that. I did quite a number of mountain marathons in Scotland, uh, with a friend of mine. Um, nicotine can unite nickname. Yeah. So we did an upgrade the five or six months in marathons. Um, and then when I left the army, um, 2010 moved to New Zealand, uh, one sort of key back go.
Speaker 2 00:15:05 And so I think I wanted the challenge there for me. I want the physical challenge. So I do, I enjoy the outdoors surfing light skin of the fund, but I need that physical, you know, they don't, they don't push you quite as much physically and I need that in my life. So I was looking for how can I do that? So, um, I, uh, I signed up for a race called the spikes. It was cool. It's sponsored by spikes, which is ironically a brewery, this, um, sponsored their race in New Zealand, which an iconic events been around. I think in the eighties, I think it started coast to coast event, which is a, they call it multi-sport in New Zealand. It's a bit like triathlon, but the, um, rather than swimming, they did kayaking. And, uh, most of it is off-road. So it will be a, it will be an, an off-road run, there'll be a road or a mounted bike.
Speaker 2 00:15:54 Um, and there'll be a kayak, either a river or a Lake or sea or something. So, um, so yeah, sauna for that. So it goes from the West coast in the South, on, in New Zealand over to Christchurch on the East coast. Uh, I can't give an exact, this is about 270 Ks and, uh, involves a mounted run through office past whichever they sold out, uh, on a whitewater kayak and road biking. Uh, so I trained for that for a year or so did the event. Um, and it was great and I thought, you know, brilliant. And then afterwards, uh, I've done a few smaller multi-sport events out there. Um, but I needed, I didn't want to devote as much time to it cause with what, you know, with triathlon with three disciplines, it's a lot of time, you know, you need to be doing at least six sessions a week.
Speaker 2 00:16:41 And um, so I thought, what am I okay at? What can I sort of do relatively well without having to put quite so much time into it, uh, trying to, you know, balance your family work and everything else. And I thought, well, I wasn't too bad at running around tax on the back around mountainous terrain. So, uh, which led me to, and I did pretty well on that coast to coast with it in terms of the mountain runs. So they're all dark. Uh, I saw these, um, you know, ultra ultra distances. So I'd already clocked in, you know, in the past this a competition called the marathon day solver, which takes place in, in, uh, in Morocco. And, uh, that was always on the bucket list. So I thought, right, I'm going to do that applied in New Zealand. Um, and we moved back to UK and I applied in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 00:17:27 So the year we got the following year when we got back, so two came back to UK 2015 and, um, I did the 2016 event. And at that point around that sort of time, um, okay, we can just go down rabbit Warrens, but rather than sort of reading color books. And, um, I read a book called a boy, Krista Giller button, if you have read anything by him, but he wrote a book called happiness of pursuit. Um, and it's about setting yourself, this sort of challenge you'd be like. So I set myself a 10 year challenge to, to try and try and run the sort of 10 toughest foot races around that was in my mind what Sam himself. And I've been trying to tick tick each one off each year. So that that's, that's the sort of background to it. Um, and the MDs was the first one really. And since then I've done a number of others, but I'm sort of, uh, you know, just on the beginning of the journey, really.
Speaker 0 00:18:24 So how many of those 10 have you ticked off the day?
Speaker 2 00:18:26 <inaudible> um, so the marathon day solver, I've done the Swiss Oregon trail, which is a 133 mile run through the hours around Switzerland, obviously. Um, I've done Dragon's back race through Wales, which is starts North Wales ends up in the black mountains in the South Wales, which is 15 Kate sort of stage race. Yeah. This year I'm signed up for UTM, be ultra trail to Montblanc, um, people in the, in the ultras and the notes, one of the biggest races in Europe,
Speaker 0 00:18:56 Do you have to qualify it, doesn't qualify.
Speaker 2 00:18:59 You need a certain amount of points to, to enter some of them certainly for the UTM B and it's, you know, it's massively oversubscribed just like MDs. Um, so, so yeah, so that's, that's my goal. If it goes ahead this year, at the end of August, I was going to say,
Speaker 0 00:19:13 I mean, the likelihood I've got iron man where I was in September, still, still all my iron mans up until this point had been canceled. I've still got doubts whether or not that will we'll go ahead. Um, with kind of lifting of, of lockdown, it's still going to be a graduated one. So I guess, are you thinking that's teetering on the edge of,
Speaker 2 00:19:33 Well, interestingly they put a survey out to everyone about two weeks ago. They need to make a decision on the 20th of May. And I think, I guess it depends on, I think people are concerned about what the race would look like, even if it does go ahead and, you know, it's going to be similar to what their expectations when they first signed up to it, know we're going to cut it down. So I dunno, I think, I think probably the safe option is to postpone it, but if they think they can run it, um, if they think they can run it and it can reflect, you know, pretty similar experience, um, you know, you're not going to have the crowds and champagne and all that sort of stuff. So, but they may be able to operate it, you know?
Speaker 0 00:20:09 Well, let's hope so, but, but even so, I mean, like you say, it's in the scheme of things, you know, it's inconsequential with what's going on in the world, but it would be, it'd be great if it can come off. Um, you, you talked about, I mean, so there's some wonderful events, we'll go into the MDs a little bit more perhaps, but you mentioned previously that, you know, I asked you, why did he get into this things? And you said, you know, you always kind of need that challenge to push yourself for what is it about these, these sort of distances that you kind of hit your, your best version of yourself or it's so attractive for you? Um,
Speaker 2 00:20:49 I think because, yeah, it's difficult, isn't it? Like you say, everyone's got different levels of fitness and an experience. And I think, cause I've been doing, you know, runs running for so long now, you know, for over 30 years of sort of, you know, being given events, for example, um, you progressively, if have that sort of person you'll progressively keep pushing your boundaries when you're so worked up from stuff we did on the commando course where 30 miles in it was a very long way. So there's a very long way for a lot of people, but once you've done a marathon, you know, 30 miles is not a big issue, 50 miles is not a really big issue. And so, because as you get longer, I think, I think why I like the longer distances is because it is like a journey. It is a journey it's over 24 hours often and you're going to get you often will run at night.
Speaker 2 00:21:40 There's a lot of challenge in that. I like the outdoor side of thing, like being out and exploring the wilderness and getting out there, see some remote places. But I think I like, I think the ultras appeal to me because of the challenge of, of the length of it and knowing that you can't really avoid the suffering. And I know that sounds a bit sort of sadomasochist type thing, you know, masochistic disorder or punish yourself, but you there's so much more fulfillment when you've done something tough at the end of it. And that's, to me, you know, I've grown as you grow as a person, cause you've, you've gone through the experience and you know that you can pull it off and you know, I've vented. Right. I think I did before I did a hundred monitor. I think the next nearest distance I'd run at that point was about 50 miles.
Speaker 2 00:22:28 I think the biggest one was at Swiss Aandra, which is 133 miles with 11,000 meters a cent. And so, which is a huge challenge. And there was a couple of times leading up to other bitten off more than I can chew here. Am I going to really fail on this one? But actually, you know, once you get into it, it's like anything else you just got to keep going and you just, you know, you just gotta keep pushing on and, and it was great at the end of it, you know, the euphoria of getting through it and doing reasonably well on it. I was really pleased. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:23:00 It's quite incredible. Isn't it? How knowing beyond a certain distance, you know, that you're going to have all these obstacles and challenges, not just the obstacle and challenge of completing the distance, but the battle with self the Baffler again and it's, and it's interesting, isn't it, as you're talking, it's not about a race against somebody beating yourself. It purely is a competition with self and almost like I look forward to seeing how I can handle whatever is coming up ahead of me knowing that you're putting yourself deliberately in, in that way. Um, but also I think we have to remind ourselves and for those that are listening, you know, the fact that you're running hundreds of miles, that that's your thing. You're somebody else's challenge could be the local park on a five Ks. It's just as valid. There is this what I like about the running community. Not actually, it's not about what I can. I run 20 times longer than you have. It's we all have our destinations and obstacles and process in the way. And it's the pitting of self against that, which is the true, I guess, beauty off of running.
Speaker 2 00:24:07 Yeah, it is. It's absolutely. And also probably a little bit different for triathlon because you are sort of operating on your own, but, well, I don't know you, but certainly on ultras, you know, you, you do sort of run alongside people for certain amounts of time and you meet so many characters. That's part of the great experience from it. I mean, that's what I really valued on those events is the people you meet and, um, and you exchange stories with and stuff, and you sort of suffer together for a while, you know, experienced the highs and lows of their bodies. I mean, I, I sort of the analogy for me is I do think, um, you know, Jordan's running is, is a bit like life it's it's, it's long enough to have highs and lows in it. And it's an, it's a, it's like a condensed version of, you know, sort of life experience in a way, cause you know, you're going to suffer,
Speaker 0 00:24:58 You know, it's going to be hard at the time.
Speaker 2 00:25:00 I have to pick yourself back up, you know, you're gonna have to push three times and yet you're really suffering with pain or whatever it might be. And, um, to get to the end that it's, you know, it's a bit like that. And I sort of take that with me, you know, on the whole life experience. I think it's, it's a good, it's a, it's a good learning process about yourself. For sure.
Speaker 0 00:25:20 There's so much, I mean, if I look behind me, I'm not on my, um, a bookcase here, I've got a book called the philosophy and running. And I think to your point, running in particularly running along distances or, or any endurance event, there is long enough, like you say to be the, the complete life experience in a, in a, in a very sort of intense period of time, I think, you know, yes, you're absolutely a triathlon iron man is, you know, when you're a swim, you're not talking to anyone because you're, you know, that's not the case on the bike. You've got your 10 meter distance between cyclist. So there's no chat there, but when it comes to the run, that's when you run alongside each other and you're helping each other and you're giving encouragement and the more I've raced, I used to be very insular and very sort of focused on myself.
Speaker 0 00:26:08 Now, when I race, I find the process of helping others or even just the process of gratitude and thanking the marshals and everything else like that really helps me through and connect to the moment rather than you could spend all this time running and not even notice the beautiful countryside or not even notice the cheering crowds or whatever it might be. I think sometimes when you sort of open yourself up to it, you have a better experience than again, like life, you know, if you just kept yourself to yourself, you know, you could probably go, you probably go faster alone, but you go further together and there is something for sure around that, which I is pretty deep stuff, you know, from a philosophical point of view. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:26:52 Yeah, it is. And I think, um, again, I'm not, you know, I'm not going for typically good times or anything. I go to I'll try and do hard events just to complete them, you know? And, um, so I don't mind, um, even slowed down a bit to, like you said, help someone through, through an event or something, so, or just share the experience for a bit longer. Cause that's part of why I do it. Why, why sonnet for some of these races? So it's um, yeah, I, I enjoy that. Um, I pretty much will meet someone that I'll keep in touch with and it just about every race I've done. Um, you know, cause it, cause again, you're going to feel that it's, it's a very bonding experience when you go through things.
Speaker 0 00:27:29 Yeah. I think that they also, the attraction for me is at a certain level, you can't just wing an iron man. You can't just wing a hundred mile foot race, whereas you could be down down the pub with your mates and enter a half marathon tomorrow night and it's not to denigrate those distances. But I think there is an element of you have to be prepared for the sting. So MDs Madison to Sabra is a great example of the preparation. You have to go to give us a sense of what the event it is. I know cause it's over several stages, isn't it? And you say it's North Africa there, but the kind of prep that you have to go through for something like that, David, it, must've taught you a little bit that you carry forward and in the rest of your races names.
Speaker 2 00:28:14 Yeah. So the backgrounds of the writing, I think it started in the eighties and by going Patrick Bower is a French guy, went out for a walk for a couple of hundred miles in the desert and thought was a brilliant experience and you'll turn it into an event. So then it's just grown and grown in popularity. So I think when I did it in, was it 2016, I think was about 1200 capacitors and it's probably a similar migrants not anymore. Um, so it's yeah, it's a six day stage race, uh, couples of about 250 kilometers over the Sahara desert on the temperatures get up to, so it's run about, about April, I think is the time they do it. And um, yeah, the temperatures went on was at about 42 degrees. So the peak, you know, mid, mid forties, low to mid forties. Um, and uh, and so yeah, and the terrain is varied. It can be June's, it can be hard trail, it can be Rocky, um, and generals and stuff. So it's a real, it's a real mix of terrain, a lot of sand obviously. Um, and so you need certain kids. So I think, yeah, the elements you need the robust and that you need the robustness to be able to trouble over that type of terrain. So you need to try on similar sort of terrain if you're gonna, you know, it's not just about endurance, it's about strengthening your body and your ligaments and your joints, everything else.
Speaker 0 00:29:31 Yeah. I think the kits is quite a big
Speaker 2 00:29:35 Because you carry all your equipment. Um, so certainly a food and only emergency kit that you might need. You have to, with you over those six days, you don't carry it, the tantra and then all that, all the sort of correlation side of this, or is it done for you, but you do carry a food, carry a water. Um, there are stage, there are stations for your wards obviously, cause you can't carry enough over six days, but you keep replaying with that when you do carry all your food and that's the majority of your weight and you carry a sleeping bag in your emergency kits. So yeah. And thankfully your pack gets lighter through the week as you eat food. It's a, it's a challenge. It's a challenge for the terrain challenge for the temperature, a challenge for the, I think the big thing, what people find the most difficult is, um, if you're not used to living in quite austere environments, we're quite privileged being ex-military that we've gone through.
Speaker 2 00:30:30 Some priests lived in some pretty horrible places and huddles and all that sort of stuff. But if you, if you're not used to that, it's not just a race, it's not just a running race, it's it grinds you down through the week can be a pretty miserable, miserable place. Um, when you're, and you will suffer from blisters and stuff like that. Cause you can't really avoid that. To be honest in some of the, I think you see people, I mean, by the end of the week, sort of like people are sort of shuffling around like the walking dead.
Speaker 0 00:31:00 It must be like retreat from Moscow or something.
Speaker 2 00:31:02 Yeah. So it grinds you down. But, but actually, you know, I find that does it quiet for administrative wise? You know, like drawing kit and all that sort of stuff and watching the thing of it, it's a very easy environment. There's a lot of wind, there's a lot of sand storms come through. There's a lot of, um, you know, it's pretty hot, lots of spiky things that want to stick in your feet. Yeah. It's quite, it can be quite soft environment. I think that's what people suffer from it easy to get infections and things. So if you look at it, you have to have your own administrations. We used to call it in the field field. You have to have the right kit. You have to be able to administer your feet. Well, although they have got a lot of medical teams that help you with that. And if you can do that and keep your body going and deal with the heat, um, then you will, uh, you you're likely to be successful because the cutoff times aren't too bad actually, you know, you don't have to be a racist snake to finish it.
Speaker 0 00:31:56 It's so much more than just being able to run. It's being able to look after the machine that is going to get you from, for me to be isn't it. And
Speaker 2 00:32:05 Yeah, it's keeping the fluids in keeping the food and administrating your feet well, looking after yourself. Well, yeah,
Speaker 0 00:32:12 And this is where I, with my iron man racing. I don't really, I mean, I can get away with more because I know that after my sort of tend to 12 hours, whatever it's going to be, that's it, you know, it's tea and metals in a hot bath. Whereas if you've got to sustain it over, they, then that's a whole nother challenge. It's, it's far more physical and emotional and mental challenge. So let's, um, let's, let's kind of, as we kind of draw to the end of the day and you know, I can chat forever around this. Let's let's explore because this whole premise of give yourself the chat. It's not, you know, how do you kind of beat yourself up or whatever. It's just really, how, how do individuals manage that internal game? When all they want to do is take the easy option or they want to do is give up or put off or whatever it might be. And it doesn't have to be endurance sports it's in all areas of life, but in order to reach the levels that we want, we have to kind of give ourselves that cha what does that mean for you? How does that kind of manifest the needs of examples of what or what give yourself the chat is for Dave?
Speaker 2 00:33:17 Um, what does it mean? I think for me, it's, it's about, you know, I tend to go there
Speaker 0 00:33:26 Cause that's what, the way,
Speaker 2 00:33:27 You know, for me, it's about what your sort of purpose, what are you trying to do? What are your goals in life and what w what sort of things do you want to look back on towards the end year days and say, yeah, I did that. And I want to
Speaker 0 00:33:39 Probably like yourself, I want a full life. All of I can say, yeah, I ticked off these and I did this stuff and I challenge myself.
Speaker 2 00:33:44 And, um, so I think, I think partly it's about being driven enough to want to put yourself out there and put an N
Speaker 0 00:33:52 Get out of your comfort zone, you know,
Speaker 2 00:33:55 A go go and sort of push yourself because it's very easy to sit in a company it's very,
Speaker 0 00:34:00 Very easy and it's sort of human nature sometimes I think too,
Speaker 2 00:34:04 To just sit in your comfort zone and a lot will do. And so you've got to have a purpose, I think, to want to get out your comfort zone. And fortunately for me, because I enjoy it, I've had that. Um, I think once you've got that sort of understanding about you, you're trying to achieve something. Um, I think it's understanding that, um, it is a journey and, and, uh, I talked about it
Speaker 0 00:34:26 Highs and lows, and you have to accept that it's not all going to go smoothly. You're going to get setbacks, whatever, or you deal with those setbacks. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:34:33 That's key. It's um, you have to accept that, you know, I think that it comes with maturity and experience that you reflect on some of these things slightly differently than when you were younger. I think I'm formal,
Speaker 0 00:34:46 We're in tune with this. I'm still sort of learning
Speaker 2 00:34:49 And trying to understand, uh, how I manage that, how I manage that
Speaker 0 00:34:53 Frustrations about things not happening quickly enough, but I want them to, and it impacts on the, you know, how they affect your life and
Speaker 2 00:35:00 Getting frustrated about stuff like that. I'm trying to, I'm trying to sort of chill out a bit in those areas. I'm a digressive. So coming back to the, coming back to the, um, the challenge of it. Yeah. And how you, I think when you're, you know, when you're at the low points and when you, I think accepting that you, you have to the no shortcuts to be like, it's very much, uh, everyone's focused on
Speaker 0 00:35:25 Speed and how you'd get life hacks and how you get rallies. I don't think for the type of events
Speaker 2 00:35:31 We do, you know, you have to put the hours in, you have to prepare well, um, there are no, there are no shortcuts for it. If you don't put the preparation in for a race a lot, then you likely you're gonna fail. You know, you'll be one of that. If you're doing a tough event, most of the man runs 60, 60% sort of pass rate, you know, 40% or whatever don't finish. So the people who haven't prepared well often see not very, very early, you know, they'll, they'll end up just drop back. Cause you just haven't put the preparation. And so there, there are no shortcuts you have to prepare, um, that's part of the journey. You have to do the, getting the equipment, right. Um, and you have to be prepared to be able to dig deep and you have to do, you have to do different stuff.
Speaker 2 00:36:16 If you want to achieve sort of greater challenges, you have to understand that that comes with a cost and it comes with, you know, it comes with some sort of sacrifice. If you like, something's going to have to give you can't have it all. You can't have the, you can't have all of the plush sort of live in it. And, uh, and everything's hunky Dory nine to five and still expect to do stuff that's outside the box. You have to, you have to push yourself to do that. And I think, I think that for me is what it's about. So for me to fit my training in, you know, I have to get up at 5:00 AM. It'd be nice to get an extra couple of hours sleep, but I have to get up at 5:00 AM to put the hours into do my work that I need to do to, to fund my lifestyle and my family and get the training in and work on the business. You know, there's no, there's only 24 hours in a day. So prepare yourself. If you want to do things that are slightly out of the ordinary, you have to act like that. And you have to do stuff out of the ordinary in terms of the preparation that goes into it. I think, I think that for me is a bit, I'm probably waffling a bit, but, um,
Speaker 0 00:37:24 I think that thing, if you want an extraordinary life or you want an extraordinary business, whatever, you have to do extra ordinary things, and these aren't superhuman things, I mean, I've noted down here, you know, there's no hack, you've got to put the work in, you know, there's no sort of shortcuts. And I think everyone knows that. I mean, that's, that's, that's not news to anyone it's, it's knowing it and then applying it and doing it. And, and there's a theme throughout all of these podcast episodes is that actually you've got to take it from the conceptual and intellectual and just actually start putting it into action. Um, and, and I think everything you've talked about there is just as applicable to ultra endurance running as it is to starting a business. And, you know, you're experiencing that as well. What does being a better team, player manager leader, universal law here.
Speaker 0 00:38:16 I think it's just in endurance running. There's you see the lesson in stark contrast. If you hadn't prepared you, ain't gonna make it, if you haven't prepared your care, you're going to suffer with blisters and all those other things. I think perhaps in, in, in life, in general, we, we don't see perhaps some of the, um, the fallout of not being as starkly. So it's not just insurance running, isn't it really? I mean, it's just, I think we're coming to the end now in terms of, let's just go back to, um, uh, the product and the nutritional product you're putting out there. If you want to share how people can find out about it or the name, or is it not at that stage yet? Um, yeah, so happy to I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll do an Instagram account that I've been experimented with. So supernatural fuel, um, it's, I've got a website built, but until I've confirmed, um, exact ingredients in terms of proportions, which I could put on the package and I don't wanna put it out there yet.
Speaker 0 00:39:14 So the website is not live, but it will be in the next couple of months and it's a supernatural fuel and you've got an Instagram account where people can follow you. Yeah, that's right. So, um, yeah, it's, it's under that. It's on the supernatural fuel and, um, yeah, and I expect my target is to, is to get starts on it probably around August, if we don't get any, any other setbacks, all I can push through, that's the sort of time frame that I'm walking through next few months. So over that period, I'll, I'll get a website live. You'll be able to buy online. I look Dave on at four to it, you'll have one more today. I'll go and find you and, and, and folly. But mate, it's been awesome to catch up with you as ever. I know we've not having our kind of usual, um, so quarterly Curry together. So this is our virtual Curry kind of chat, but we can go into so much more impressive world either at a future episode, but for the time being, thanks so much for your time, mate,
Speaker 1 00:40:08 <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:40:19 I love having dear friends on this, give yourself the chat podcast. It gives me an opportunity to explore in perhaps a more formal sense. Some of the things that we often take for granted in our friendships and what's drawn us together and the things that we've gone through over what was 30 years of scientist or loans, commando course, and then, uh, a passion for long distance running and quite frankly, hurting ourselves in the name of sport. Uh, but, uh, a fascinating guests there. And Dave and I really do wish Dave, the best of luck with his venture into the world of sports, nutrition, and his goals for ultra endurance running. If you'd like to join the conversation, then it's happening right now over on LinkedIn and also on my YouTube channel, Peter Lewis coaching feel free to drop a line, say, hello, suggest he wants you to have on his guests. And also some topics that you'd like me to explore, but in the meantime, the coffee self, and we'll see you on the next one.
