Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Welcome to the, give yourself the chance podcast. I'm your host, Peter Lewis. And this is the show dedicated to unlocking human potential and living a life
Speaker 1 00:00:08 Performance. <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:00:17 It's another episode of give yourself the chance. I have a chap called Ryan Ramsey with me today, um, who has a fascinating background? We'll go into that more in detail in a second, but, uh, Ryan. Hello? How are you? I'm good. How are you? Yeah, I'm very good. This is our second goal. Isn't it? Because technology failed us last time. Um, we record this on zoom and then sort of lift the audio. And our theory is that too many people are on the internet at once. So, um, it's a Sunday morning and so far connection's holding up really well. Ryan, you spent, uh, 26 years in the Royal Navy, 24 of those years was in the submarine service. And you, uh, I guess one of the highlights of that service was being captain of your own bunks. And then lastly, going on to train, uh, captains or would be captains of submarines.
Speaker 0 00:01:04 And, but now you're, you're in corporate life. Uh, you've had experience working with oil rigs, uh, head of construction for national grid. You do consultancy work and you're also a published author. Gosh, you've, uh, you've managed to cram an awful lot in that time, but we're in lockdown. It's pandemic still. So let's, let's start more sort of locally how's things been doing pandemic for you. So, um, I think the first thing was, uh, you could see it coming, so there's a bit about preparation and for me, I just turned it into a big something job, um, with the added bonus, like a guy outside. So I think we've handled it well. There's been ups and downs obviously. And, um, yeah, it's, it's unique, isn't it? So, um, unique experience for everyone. It is, but I'm guessing not so much for you because you've just alluded to them.
Speaker 0 00:01:53 I guess lockdown is, is a lot of a submariner, is it not? I mean, there must be so many parallels with that, that I've helped you personally prepare. Um, I mean, just give us a highlight of, of the comparison between, you know, being on the water for extended periods of time and, and this pandemic, I'm sure there's power. I was there somewhere. Yeah, they're all <inaudible>. So the whole piece about you've only got, well, when we started out and you couldn't do anything and you have to stay in your house, uh, it was a submarine. Um, probably the added complication and opportunity was the fact that you had constant access to the internet and to, um, to the news, the mainstream media and everything else. So you don't get that when you're on a submarine. So, so you will leave and you might go off for a 90 day patrol. Um, and basically you're relying on somebody in the headquarters sending you one or two pages of news over and, um, you've got no contact with your family. Obviously you can't talk to them. They can send you a 60
Speaker 2 00:03:00 Message once a week, which is looked at by everybody before he gets to you. Um, so, and that's it, but actually that isolation piece, as long as you get into a routine, um, you take breaks when you can, you made sure that you clean the area that you're living in and keep it really clean. Um, imagine you exercise yourself mentally and physically. Um, as soon as you get into that cycle, um, that that's that's submarine life and some are trained to do it and actually general public, aren't trying to do that, but most of them managed to do it, which is, which is all credit to them.
Speaker 0 00:03:32 Well, I, I don't know. I know when we tried first time around you, you think actually at the leaders need a bit of a Pat on the back, don't you really about how we've we've adapted? Because it didn't say submarine when it gets trained, you practiced and you you're all in it together, but you know, that actually it could, it's going to come to an end, but this has been sort of almost like no end in sight. And I think your personal opinion is actually leaders have done pretty well during this time. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:03:59 Um, uh, we've helped a lot of, um, leaders over through that three to pandemic. And I think at the very beginning of it, you could see lots of the biggest thing with, uh, the challenges fleeing the teams, um, actually achieving the task they need to achieve without having their teams close to them, as well as living with their families at the same time or living on their own at the same time. Um, all of those challenges compound, uh, the leadership problem. And of course, um, with no training, you, you've got to, you've got to turn around and, and get on with it and, um, and ask for advice when you can. But so I say all credit to, to anybody who's led through this period is it's been unique. Um, it's been difficult for many, um, and yeah, they've done. They've done well to get this far.
Speaker 0 00:04:45 Yeah, it's incredible. I know at the start, perhaps people would have threw their hands up and said, well, you know, I don't know the answer to this because we'd never faced this before, but I think those leaders that have made the most of it realize that nobody's faced this before. And therefore,
Speaker 2 00:04:59 I guess it's the questions we should ask ourselves. So
Speaker 0 00:05:02 Do you see the challenge for leadership as we sort of come out of this? I mean, it was one thing to have it landed on us. I personally think it's going to be far more difficult coming out of locked down than it ever was going in. I'd be interested in your view on that
Speaker 2 00:05:17 The economics of bringing teams out furlough and getting your businesses up and going. I think it comes down to people and, um, the way that, the way that I've looked at this, and it's not dissimilar to the submarine coming back to, um, to a, to a Harbor, for example, or returning from a 276 or 86 day plot. And coming back to the probably integration stop this people leaders, and it comes down to three things. And the first one is it's about getting people back into the working environment and there's three different groups of people. In my view, there'll be those that think the virus is not issue. And therefore they'll just go back to normality. There'll be a group that will be reluctance to come back to normality. Cause they won't understand. They don't understand the virus. I mean, who does to be quite Frank, but they won't, they don't understand the risk and they will worry about how they, uh, whether they get COVID-19 or they give it to somebody else.
Speaker 2 00:06:15 And then there's a third group, which is all those that have been furloughed and, and you can always split those into three as well. So the ones that get unfollowed, um, they, they need to integrate into the team, the ones that don't get unfairly or wonder about their value to the company, um, and the self worth. And then the third group are those that don't want to be unfair load cause it's been a great holiday being paid and doing a good thing. And so leaders have got to manage all of those different groups, um, and achieve the achieve, whatever the company objective is. And that for me is the biggest challenge that the leader is going to have going forward.
Speaker 0 00:06:53 Yeah, it's, it's going to be complex, isn't it? And, and also I think attitudes of employees and team members, like you say, those have really thrived in, it will be, you know, the challenge, well, why do I have to come back into work? Why can't I continue to work like this? And that may be at odds with what the company wants and everything else. So there, so I guess there's still the opportunity in there. I think things, people talk about the new normal and, and only often think that's not necessarily a helpful phase. Cause it almost feels like, well, it will go back to how it was. I mean, how much different do you think life will be beyond this deep? Do you think there's any going back, do you think
Speaker 2 00:07:33 So, so I'll ask the question. Why would we want to go back to how it was and um, the, this, this is the ideal opportunity to do something different. My fear actually is that it does go back to how it was. And um, you're seeing some of that now. I mean, I think during this period of time, people had a grind to like the environment they lived in. I appreciate the smaller things in life and, um, and w what you see with the beaches and how people left rubbish. And that, that, that pulls me. And it pulls me because it means that people are slipping back into the way that they used to be. Um, and I'd sort of hoped that we would come out, um, in a slightly different way, but maybe, maybe that's just a blip and then people are just, you know, sort of release. And then people are just back into, back into a new normality, which is a good normality.
Speaker 0 00:08:25 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even at a local level, you know, those verses that you sort of keep ourselves physically fit and go off running. I've had to share our kind of, you know, our lonely pathways with, with so many other people. Cause they're all, everyone's got the same idea of getting out and about and connected with nature. And another thing, that's a great thing, even though sometimes it's frustrating. It's like, Oh, this is my route, but, but actually I think you're right. I don't suppose it's too dissimilar to, when I say that comes back, you know, I'm onto dry land and it has a bit of a blowout, but then gets back into their routine. I think we have to allow for that, but let's just hope it is just sort of blow outs or just sort of exercising their freedom. And then, then perhaps contemplating a little bit more about where the opportunity lies here.
Speaker 0 00:09:07 Um, I think there's, there's so much that we've gained through this, that to lose that opportunity. And I think that's where leaders really need to grasp the nettle weirdly and, and, and, and drive it home. But, um, let's, um, let's, let's talk about some of the submarine service and then perhaps we'll, we'll, we'll also sort of segue onto your experience in, in corporate life. Um, you, you had the very sort of privileged position of preparing those people that have been selected for captain of a boat to prepare for their command. And my understanding is not many people have really had that opportunity, but, um, what, what was that like actually, how do you prepare a leader for the pressures and, you know, the sort of nuances of submarine command, which I'm guessing is different to somebody on me. I was a land-based commander really in the similarities there, of course. But what would you say are the sort of the essential leadership, different differences of leading a submarine and,
Speaker 2 00:10:02 Yeah, so, so, um, when you, when you're in command of a submarine and you're leading that team, you're leading autonomous nature, you're given maybe one or two pages of direction and guidance and tasking, and then it's up to you and your team as to how you execute that. And people aren't checking in to find out how you're doing it. So you'll disappear off for a 60, 90 day patrol. Maybe it's checking in, see, see how you're doing it, but you've got to come back with the goods. And, um, and so that, that whole piece where submarine command is there's a piece about leading people. There's a piece about making decisions. Um, and there's a piece about justifying how you've made those decisions, because inevitably when you get back, uh, the whole process will be rightly scrutinized. And so you need to be able to justify that.
Speaker 2 00:10:49 So in the submarine command course, parachutes, it's called, um, people get selected for that course. And then they go on that course and I will train for a period of time. And then I will test. And during the testing phase, uh, it's that C, um, is hard work, uh, the amount of forces that are provided to the parish or teacher and all that. So tests, you know, whether it's land, whether it's air force, uh, whether it's, um, ships and other submarines in order to put those, uh, potential submarine, captains under pressure is immense. Um, so as long as they get those three balanced and they get it right, um, then, then they good together at that point. So, um, what we try and do on that course is, is show them many or get them to experience many different situations. So they team those problems really early on, and they've seen them sort of when they see those in command, they already know how they're going to, uh, what they're going to do or how they're going to do it. And that allows them the intellectual space, uh, to be able to deal with whatever the wicked problem that comes along.
Speaker 0 00:11:54 So that that's interesting. So I mean, the people that have been selected for command and as you were as well, and, you know, please don't sort of have any sort of modesty bounty, but what do you think sets a good submarine commander apart from, from other leaders? Because it strikes me that some of the nuances and that isolation and the confidence, but also to take that sort of contour moment and be able to think when under pressure, what do you think, or what are you looking for, I guess, a for, for a potential submarine come on. So, um,
Speaker 2 00:12:32 Reflected a lot of 'em, I'm a very reflective person about leadership. I've thought a lot about that as I've, I've, I've progressed within the, um, within the business environment. And I think for me, it comes down to three things and I probably didn't think this at the time, but instinctively, I looked for these three things and leaders. The first one was about, uh, leading by example. So is where they were calm, whether they're consistent and consistency is probably the most important part of it, whether they are consistent in the way that they dealt with their team, where they showed compassion. The second part was about team first and never about the individual. Those were the egos, um, and there are always leaders and egos. Um, but it was those that concentrated on their team first, um, allow him empowered them, enabled them, allow them to fail, um, such that they could learn from that failure. Um, and then the third part was about direction and guidance. So it's whether they could turn around and come up with the, the Watson, the Y and then allow their teams to, uh, to do the how, um, but jump in at the right times in order to make sure that submarine is safe, um, achieving the aim as well.
Speaker 0 00:13:41 Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's, that's interesting. I think that that ego less position, I mean, we will have an ego don't we, but it's how much of it, of that gets in the way. And I guess the consequences for poor leadership, you know, submerge on where they can be catastrophic, can't they, so therefore you have to have removed that, but the trusting the team and, and that sort of direction and guidance to let them work out how to affect, you know, because they understand the what and why becomes even more of, of contrasting. I think I'm, I'm guessing I'll be very surprised if you haven't read David Marquez book, we turned the ship around and everything like that, but I've often used David Markey's work around that, that leader leader model. I mean, how much of his writing and teaching sort of echoed in, in what you experienced
Speaker 2 00:14:33 Two years with the United States Navy on exchange of them? So I've got C M a U S submarines operating first firsthand. And his book is, um, is a, is a very good book and a very good example of, of how to recover and how to establish that stuff in place. Um, for, for me, uh, I think that submarine, it echoes the personality of the leader, um, because it's, it's a steel tube. If you have ever wanted a clinical area to study leadership, that is it because the external forces that influence the ability for that leader to reach back and reach out for support doesn't exist. And therefore it all comes down to how the leader acts, how the leader responds to stuff is, is just an amazingly unique place to see it all play out. Um, and, and, and that sounds, um, like in fact, I was just really lucky when I was, when I was teaching submarine captains to observe all of that.
Speaker 2 00:15:29 And, um, as well as teaching them, obviously. Um, and so the, the leader sets everything up going forward. Um, and they really do, but you need to follow those too, because otherwise there's no team. So, so actually there's this piece where, and the military are not good at this because they tell everybody to become a leader. And actually you don't want everybody to be a leader. What you actually want is some followers as well. And we should respect the fact that these, these guys and girls don't want to be leaders, but they do want to be good followers. So for me, I think it was about concentrating on those two groups and having different strategies for each one, how you concentrate on your leaders, how you concentrate on your followers and how you blend it all together.
Speaker 0 00:16:10 But, but I do think Ryan that, yes, you want followers and you want courageous followers, followers who are able to challenge and, and engage in healthy intellectual conflict for the greater good of the team, but you want them to, and I guess that's the, the leader, uh, element of the leader leader model is that you want, um, thinking followers rather than just, well, I'll execute when I'm told to execute, because actually, like you say, that that really sort of, um, like everyone's in that, in that metal tube and everything is just highlighted, any fracture points are highlighted. So you, you kind of want a hundred plus people all thinking, but you're absolutely right that the military does focus on everyone just trying to be that leader. And I think we forget that the role of a follower, and actually we have to train people how to follow well as well.
Speaker 0 00:17:02 Um, which is which I'm not sure that the military gets us right as perhaps it should be interesting. The, um, you've, you've also highlighted there and you didn't use the words, but I guess, how do you deal with that sort of loneliness of command? Because I guess if you're on a surface vessel, you can at least get up on board, get some fresh air and sort of take your moment and then come back down. But there's where do you go for those moments where you really have to collect your thoughts and think of some of those stressful situations that you would have found yourself in? How, how did you manage that? And I guess that's the sort of the, give yourself a chat piece, but how did you make sure that you are mentally able to, to lead for extended periods of time? So, um, it's transparent
Speaker 2 00:17:50 In a submarine cause obviously it's a very confined environment and everything, you know, you are visible to your team all the time. And so I think stressful about putting money, school, uh, events that I was involved in June my command. Um, and I, I always thought that it was completely visible that I was, I might've been struggling, but apparently not. Apparently I was completely calm and collected and everything else was inside. I was spitting, you know, loads of plates, trying to work out what the solution is. Um, on a personal level, my team were doing exactly the same thing. What I was trying to do is think my team are gonna think in one particular direction or two or three different things, and I need to think of some other alternatives as well. So you've got different things. So I think that, um, the training definitely allowed me to manage the emotional piece that goes with that without a doubt, the Chinese deadpan.
Speaker 2 00:18:43 So, um, so that's great, but how did I manage it intellectually? So, so I used to read a lot, um, I would read leadership books and, and generally, um, military ones to be Frank. And it wasn't as, I didn't think this at the time I was an athlete reader all the time, always had a book out when, when I had some spare time and I was reading and some of the somebody told me a long time after he said, that's what I was trying to validate my decision making. So I was looking at historical leaders, see what they did in crisis to validate the decision that I had made at that time. So, um, so yeah, I think, um, back, uh, I would talk openly with my second in command. Not, not about my own personal feelings or anything else, but I tutor out with them discuss stuff.
Speaker 2 00:19:32 I would discuss everything prior to an event with my team. Cause it was democracy right up until the decision was made. And then, then we'd often we'd go and do it. And we'd always, um, we would always do a lessons learned after an event so that we made sure that we, and as openly as, as, as we could, but never worried about, um, how my decision making was perceived by my team. I was completely open with them. I wouldn't, I wouldn't hide stuff with them. I would hide the emotional, uh, the emotional feelings that I was feeling at that time.
Speaker 0 00:20:04 Yeah. And I guess you have to have an environment where, you know, especially with your second in command, there is, is that balance that foil to your decisions and, and, and actually knowing that you can talk to someone it's, I can only imagine what it can be like that. So when you, when you look back on your time in command, um, no doubt, you know, you said you're a very reflective person and the thing that you, you took away from that you think, well, actually that, you know what, I guess the question is, what, what was your greatest learning from time in command that you've carried forward into enter your latter positions and we'll get onto your corporate experience in a moment.
Speaker 2 00:20:44 So, so I think there's two, two things here. The first one is, um, what did I take forward,
Speaker 3 00:20:48 Which is, um, it's all about the people and you, and I will pay back, um, and they'll do it brilliantly. Um, but I also learn loads in the last five years being in the business world. And do you know if I, if I'd had some of the learnings now I'd have probably done some things differently whilst I was in command. Um, and in particular dealing with other organizations, um, headquarters, I dealt with them differently.
Speaker 0 00:21:21 That that is interesting. So what, why is that specifically? Cause I agree with you. So, I mean, since I left the military, I've probably studied more about leadership than I ever did at the time. Um, and I don't know if that's to my shame or not, but I guess the period of reflection helps us. So specifically about dealing with different organizations. What, what was it that you can tell us about that, that what you to that conclusion?
Speaker 3 00:21:43 So, so I think, um, you, you probably a little little naive when you're in the military, uh, that there is a few genders and I think when you're, when you're in command, you think everybody is concentrating on that. Of course that's not always the case. People will be thinking about budgetary constraints. People will be thinking about their own personal agenda as to whether they, you know, whether they're going to go for probation or it's understanding all that. And I really didn't understand all that in command. I think I blindly thoughts that everybody was doing the same thing and that wasn't the case and it wasn't until I got into, into the business world when I learned the hard way to be, to be Frank about, um, how different organizations have different components.
Speaker 0 00:22:28 Yeah. And so, so that's a good segue actually into your, your corporate experience. So 26 years in the war Navy, uh, you decided to leave and, um, we, we have oil rigs, national grid and consultancy work all thrown in there. It's quite an eclectic mix or what did you move on to first? Was it the, the, the work with the oil?
Speaker 3 00:22:48 Yes, it was so, so, um, I, I went to shell and I was, I'm an offshore installation manager, so in charge of a platform in the North sea, um, and that was, that was a good transition into the business world. So there's some operational stuff that I could understand. Um, I didn't understand, uh, everything to do with oil and gas. Of course I had to learn again, which is fantastic, learning something new. Um, and then I go into the world of trying to understand contracts, uh, all that stuff that I would never, ever, um, have had in, in, in the military. Um, so it was a upward learning curve for me. And I met June when the oil prices $117 a barrel and I'll say, let at $27 a barrel. So once again, they all came down to people and how do you get your people to deliver with huge amounts of uncertainty, um, and deliver results. And we were, we were successful as a team. We, we stayed profitable the way the, um, through the job and your pricing.
Speaker 0 00:23:49 And that's amazing. And so what I mean, there's, there's new things to learn clearly about processes and, uh, and everything else like that. But previously you talked about when we talked about selecting leaders for command of, of a boat, you talked about consistency of approach, eagerness and direction and guidance. I mean, how much of that plays out in civilian world as being valid? W how close, how closely are his leadership in, in military context to, to commercial context, would you say what?
Speaker 3 00:24:22 So I think those, those translate across brilliantly, and actually when I talk to companies now, um, but that's what I teach them. I said, leadership simple. I know that I know you operating in a complex environment and you'll have your own model, and there'll be loads of people that teach leadership, but it's as simple as this, this is what you have to concentrate on and being tough training in order to do it. Um, and if you make it as simple as you can, um, you can achieve it. There's also the argument that we'll turn around and say, well, leading a scale and disparate organizations that doesn't work, but it does work. And I prove that in the next role I went to, um, with, uh, with national grid, because all my teams were around the country in act two and 50 people scattered around the country running 140 odd, uh, construction projects. Uh, and we, we achieved success, not because of, um, of me, but because we were always focused as a team on team success.
Speaker 0 00:25:21 Yeah. So it's just, so somebody listening to this, this episode that is perhaps at the earlier part of their leadership career, because, you know, there's, there's, there's one thing to have done X amount of years in the Navy then carrying that through. So you've got many decades of leadership experience, but somebody that's on the, of the sort of start of their career, what advice would you give them in order to, you know, to either think about their leadership or start to develop in certain areas? What would you say you would send them forward with? Yeah,
Speaker 3 00:25:52 It's really interesting. Cause, um, you're right. But you know, I've, I've had a career of leadership gradually, uh, over time, uh, my leadership developed. So, so I think for anybody starting that leadership journey, um, when you asked, what do you want to achieve? It's all right. Not to give an answer to that. Um, you know, if you get, I used to run a graduate program in, in, um, in national grid and it always used to amaze me that when you'd ask them what they wanted to do, the majority say, I want to be the CEO and you go, well, you don't know that yet. I said, I can tell you now I don't want to be the CEO of national grid. Cause it's a tough, tough job. And I'm enjoying being a, uh, a supporting leader to, to him. Um, but you know, you can have aspiration that's important, but beginning your, you have to concentrate on the role that you've got at that time and learn from the leaders that are around you good and bad. And that's really, really important is to find the good leader that sets the benchmark for you going forward.
Speaker 0 00:26:59 Yeah, that, that's interesting. And as I reflect on my own career, or particularly back to our military career, it was always focused on getting to the next step. And I think, you know, there's a lot of truth in, in be present and, and take the opportunity now. And what opportunities do you have? So yes, you want to be CEO of national grid, or you want to be the team leader, but if you're a section leader, that's where the greatest learning and leadership is. So don't worry so much about the next level, worry about being the best leader you can with the team or the environment you're in right now. And I think a lot of leaders because the corporate sets up and career setups are always about attaining the next level. I think we sometimes miss the point that the greatest learning is, is in our current situation. And I think if you do a good job in that environment, you'll get recognized for the next level without having that front of mind. Yeah, no, I agree with that.
Speaker 3 00:27:54 Totally. When I reflect back and the first thing somebody asked me when I was, when, when I went on to be second in command was what Java wants to do next. And I hadn't even started that job. So yeah, I think, like I say, being in the present is, is an enjoy it, just enjoy and learn and, um, capture the lessons so that when the next opportunity comes up, um, you're going to enjoy that too.
Speaker 0 00:28:19 Yeah. Yeah. So Ryan, yeah, you've had a stellar, uh, Naval career. Um, you published your own sort of book around, I think it was a SSN 14 submarine leadership, and I guess that was just part of that reflective process and then the work you've done, what what's next for you? What, what, you know, what's going to kind of light your fire and, uh, and, and ambition for the next chapter. Yes,
Speaker 3 00:28:47 That's a good question. So, so I realized when I left the Navy, I had to learn very quickly and I needed a breadth of experience. So, um, shell gave me a great introduction into, and it's a fantastic company to work for. National grid, gave me a portfolio of knowledge at a high level, which I'm very grateful for. Um, and then I didn't understand entrepreneurial leadership. So I went to go and work for an entrepreneur to understand that and to operate in the SME world for a bit small, medium enterprise world for a bit. So to, um, to learn from that and what went on, what I'm content with is what I do now. So I quite like going into, uh, different companies with project seven and, um, and going and helping leaders in those companies achieve success. So, so that's quite good. And what's next for me is it's about, um, just enjoying the leadership journey. This gives me the variety, which is fantastic, but it also allows me to do all the other stuff I like to do. Um, so whether it's helping charities, whether it's, um, helping SMEs a startup, all that stuff really excites me. Um, and I think, do you know, what is that bit about finding happiness? Isn't it? And, um, and at the moment I'm happy in what I'm doing.
Speaker 0 00:29:59 Well, that's wonderful to hear. And I guess, to, to leave some of our listeners with some, some parting thoughts, and there's so many nuggets within this conversation, um, being the, sort of give yourself that, that, that chat podcast, I mean, w what is it that, how, how w when, when you're gonna be faced with future stress and, and sort of leveraging that experience from the past, what actually gets you back and connected either to be happy or to, to, to live in the moment, how do you go about doing that? Because, you know, it's too easy to look at your, your kind of your career and think, well, you've, you've got it sorted, but you know, each of us struggling each day, what, what what's kind of give yourself the chat mean to you, that perhaps you can leave our listeners with some, some things that took to reflect it.
Speaker 3 00:30:45 Cool. So, so I think the, the first one is you can spend a lot of time looking back and going. That was brilliant, and, you know, this might not be, um, but that doesn't help. Cause that was the past, and this is the present. I think there's a piece that says, how am I going to be better than I was yesterday? And that for me is really, really important. So trying to find something that I can do better, I'm trying to find somebody that I can help. Um, and that gives me a real, gives me energy. And that energy is really important cause you need it. So all the way through this crisis, I've really enjoyed the fact that I've been able to help companies and help leaders, um, and, and do that because it was the right thing to do as opposed to anything else that's been fantastic. I couldn't do that if I didn't work for a company that let me do it. And so, um, I think all I do on a daily basis is think about how it went at the end of the day and then turn around and go, is there anything that I can do better as more? What am I going to learn?
Speaker 0 00:31:44 And yeah, and I guess that's, that's really, you know, your reflective practice, no doubt throughout your entire life is, is what's gone, is gone. But if there's an opportunity to learn from that and we start again tomorrow kind of thing. And, and, and again, I guess for that back to those young leaders that may be listening as well, is that, you know, it is part of a learning process. And throughout this conversation, your love of learning really has sort of come through. And I think really leadership is always about learning. It's not necessarily about having everything right. And, and knowing all the answers because how could we, but I think if you approach leadership and if you approach, um, you know, the opportunity you have as an opportunity to learn, then that's some way to, to feed in content and fulfilled and, and actually being of service. Um, it really is that simple.
Speaker 3 00:32:36 Yes, absolutely. I think if, um, you know, maybe all
Speaker 2 00:32:40 Of us would like to be remembered for the right thing. And for me, if I've helped one person, one person remembers me for having done that then, um, then that for me is success.
Speaker 0 00:32:51 Fantastic. Well, I'm sure we've, we've certainly helped more than one person on this episode. Ryan, it's been an absolute pleasure to talk with you. Um, I know we could have another episode just talking about some of the debts. You can spend no doubt with 26 years in the Navy, but we'll leave that for another time and we'll catch up with you when you've written that second book, perhaps, but for the time being Ryan, it's been a pleasure to have you on thank you so much.
Speaker 2 00:33:15 Nice. <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:33:25 Wow. Another great guest on the, give us of the chat podcast. Ryan bear is clearly a very reflective man takes learning very seriously as he does the professional of leadership and, and his mission really to pay it forward and develop future leaders and the wealth of leadership experience he has on a submarine. Uh, fascinating. And I think perhaps we'll have him back, um, on a future podcast just to talk about life on board, because it's such an environment that most of us, including myself, never really have the opportunity to witness firsthand, but for the time being the conversations going on over at LinkedIn, please connect with me, suggest guests that you might like to hear on this show and indeed subjects you'd like me to explore, but in the meantime, great to have you with me, see you on the next one.
